Talk:William (Zygon: When Being You Just Isn't Enough)

Wealthy Man's Name

Is it worth mentioning on Wealthy man's page that his name, according to the Credit Cards brought out of his wallet by Lauren Anderson, is William B. Baggs? Presumably they were created as props for this movie and the name is a tip of the hat to Zygon: When Being You Just Isn't Enough's writer, director and producer Bill Baggs. The cards aren't seen for long on screen and it is a minor detail for a minor character but I just think it could possibly be worth a mention? Alan-WK ☎ 13:53, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

If the name is given in the story, no matter how briefly, then that should be the name of the page. Can we have a screenshot of this to substantiate the claim? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 13:59, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

Credit cards.

The relevant frame is this one (and my copy is kiiinda low quality; not sure if anyone else has a higher resolution copy, or if one even exists), but the name is quite blurry (although, now knowing it's meant to be "William B. Baggs", it looks like it). OncomingStorm12th ☎ 14:32, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, looks good 'nuff to me. I say rename. What do you think? --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 14:36, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

Well... idk, unless there's a higher quality version available, I'd lean against renaming. A redirect maybe, but with such a low quality screecap, what (theoretically) stops the final version being "William D. Baggs", or "William B. Daggs", or any small variation of the sort? As I said, unless you know what it's supposed to be, it's nearly impossible to actually see it in frame. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 14:41, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

But it won't be "William D. Baggs" though. Let's not forget this is a work of fiction, not an actual alternate reality. We know it says "William B. Baggs", and that should be all the evidence we need.

Epsilon 📯 📂

14:46, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

But that's what I'm getting at. We "know" it's William B. Baggs because we're supposing it's a reference to Bill Baggs. But look at the frame that actually made it to the film. Looking at that, and that only, can you give me a 100% assurance the name spelled is "William B. Baggs"? Because I for one can't.

Thinking of searchability, I'd rather we have a descriptive name like "wealthy man" (that was also used on credits, mind you) than a name we're kind of seeing on a frame. If it was a clear frame, I'd have no doubts about renaming (despite of how he was credited), but alas, it's not a clear frame we're working with. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 14:57, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

To name a somewhat similar discussion, take a look at Talk: Brendan (Ascension of the Cybermen). There was a back-and-forth discussion of Brendan's supposed last name, because of a blurry frame (tho, in that case, the frame was meant to be blurry) that lead two moves. All I'm asking is that we take our time and try to at least find a higher resolution copy of the film before perfoming the move to something that might actually be spelled slightly different than what we're assuming it to be. OncomingStorm12th ☎ 15:03, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

Fair. If I had a copy of Zygon, I would happily get a better screenshot.

Mind you, where did this screenshot used on this talk page come from?

I would be against using a name from the end credits, as those are often inaccurate. Worst case, this page could be called "William Baggs", dropping the unclear initial.

Epsilon 📯 📂

15:06, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

I would assume the screenshot comes from a homespun digital transfer from DVD to a computer. This is a common practice to allow for easier screenshot-making, but unfortunately can result in blurring and artifacts.

At any rate, there is very solid precedent for using end credits as sources for names when all else fails; it's held to ultimately not be dissimilar to the omniscient narrator of a prose works, just like on-screen time or location captions.

(And we can't go with William Baggs either for the simple reason that we're not so sure about "Baggs" either; could be "Haggs" or "Daggs" or "Kaggs" for all we know. I suppose you could do William (Zygon: When Being You Just Isn't Enough), though. The first word is unambiguously William.) --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 15:11, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

Yep, Scrooge hit the nail on all the points made. To echo what he said, the "Baggs" is far more blurry than the "B." in the frame. But yeah, I'd happily settle for William (Zygon: When Being You Just Isn't Enough). OncomingStorm12th ☎ 15:16, November 10, 2020 (UTC)

I'd argue that by a very strict interpretation of T:NO RW it should probably be [M or W] illia [M or W], since the first and last letters look very similar to me, but at that point we're just being a bit silly. I actually think William B. Baggs is fine if there's a conjecture tag on it, since we are trying to interpret a blurry image. Najawin ☎ 16:51, November 10, 2020 (UTC)