Talk:Doctor Who (TV story): Difference between revisions

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m (moved Talk:Doctor Who (1996) to Talk:Doctor Who (TV movie): more appropriate title)
 
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== Story Number ==
{{ArchCat}}


How can the TV movie be story number 156 when '''Survival''' has the same story number? Story numbering is broken. The problem is ''Shada'' seems to be counted although it was never finished as such... But that would mean bumping all the stories from The Leisure Hive to Survival one number less...--[[User:Adric81|Adric81]] 11:18, September 27, 2009 (UTC)
== Move to Doctor Who: The Movie ==


Well seeing as Planet of the Dead is considered the 200th official episode, I think we should count backwards from there, It would seem that any cound would be based off that from now on. Counting back from the movie and noting two/three parters as a,b,c makes this story 156 and Survivial 155. Once we get to Shada, stop. The numbers should then work. Suffice to say Shada doesn't count, although we could then argue that Mission into the Unknown forms part a of The Daleks' Master Plan. That would allow Shada to count, but in the meantime I suggest we not count it. [[User:Taccer 07|Taccer 07]] 20:16, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
The DVD releases have named this is as ''Doctor Who: The Movie''. Should we move it in deference to the most recent official title?[[User:The Traveller|The Traveller]] 09:04, February 16, 2011 (UTC)
: No. ''Doctor Who'' (1996) or, even better, ''Doctor Who'' (TV story) are the best choices. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 00:46, November 14, 2012 (UTC)


==US==
I have question about Gareth. When the Doctor saw Gareth at the party, he told him to answer the 2nd question on his test. He mention that Gareth will save the world. Could this be an indirect reference to Gareth Jenkins from the In A Fix with the Sontarans bit done on the BBC show Jim'll Fix It? Just wondering. (Also, I thought the "title" to this show was "The Enemy Within", at least according to other references). Hope you can help out. [[User:Hotshot70|Hotshot70]] [[User talk:Hotshot70|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:31, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
Anyone know where I might be able to get this film in the US? I know its never been released here, and I really want to see it. I have checked Ebay and Amazon with no luck..


:it has no US release for legal reasons, so I hear. easy enough to find on the torrents, though. --[[User:Stardizzy2|Stardizzy2]] 18:12, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
: That's speculation, and that title has been identified as a nickname invented by a director or something. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]] ([[User Talk:OttselSpy25|talk to me, baby.]]) 20:38, December 31, 2012 (UTC)


==Move==
:: Producer Phil Segal suggested it at a convention. [[Special:Contributions/24.61.9.32|24.61.9.32]]<sup>[[User talk:24.61.9.32#top|talk to me]]</sup> 02:48, June 26, 2014 (UTC)
Has there been any discution about the move form TV Movie to Doctor Who (1996) ? [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 01:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


:Move reverted. This story is known as 'Doctor Who: The Movie' on the DVD, colloquially known as 'the TV movie', on the BBC's website it is quite clearly titled [http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/tvmovie/ Doctor Who: The TV Movie]. I understand CzechOut's argument (however any major moves such as this ''should'' have been placed in the talk pages before moving the page). --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 05:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
== Production section ==


:: Agreed my thoughts exactly i know the TV movie was called Doctor Who but the dvd was called Doctor Who: The Movie as you say and everything since then that i know of has refered to it as the TV Movie perhapse the section on the name in story notes could be expanded. [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 05:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Given how in depth it is, along with how there doesn't seem to be that many production sections in general that I can think of, should there be citations given for all that information? -- [[User:Tybort|Tybort]] ([[User talk:Tybort|talk page]]) 01:47, November 1, 2013 (UTC)
:::Sorry, I thought it was a completely non-controversial move, as it is copyrighted under the name ''Doctor Who'', and is listed as such on [http://www.shannonsullivan.com/drwho/serials/tvm.html Shannon Sullivan's site], [http://www.drwhoguide.com/who_mov1.htm the Doctor Who Guide], and [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116118/ IMDb].  Additionally, it was released as such initially to home video (that is, in its 1996 VHS release), its soundtrack recording, its novelization, and its script release.  The DVD is the '''only''' release of this story to add anything else to the title but the words ''Doctor Who''.  In any case, '''no official release of this thing or any of its ancillary products has the word "TV" or "television" in it'''.  Beyond all that, though, there's no other onscreen title but ''Doctor Who''.  After-the-fact renamings can't take precedence over contemporary names.  It's inconvenient for the BBC to call this simply ''Doctor Who'' now that the name applies most lucratively to the original and [[BBC Wales]] versions, but that '''is''' what they called it and marketed as at the time, and it remains the only name of official record. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]'''  [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 01:10, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


That may be so but i see no reason for the page to be moved if there was ever another TV movie with no other name that Doctor who then by all means move this page to Doctor Who (1996) however at the present time i see no reason for change. [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 01:15, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
== Behind the Scenes info largely copied from "A Brief History of Time (Travel)"==
Some minor changes, but essentially cut-and-pasted from here:


:::The reason is we're trying to be ''accurate'', not just approximate.  The only reason it's now thought of as "the TV movie" is because that's ultimately all it was. But, again, giving this page the title [[Doctor Who: The TV Movie]] is rather akin to calling the original series, [[Doctor Who: The Original Series]].  It's a ''descriptive'' term, not what the thing was actually called.  Since the link to [[Doctor Who: The TV Movie]] was preserved, I honestly don't see the harm in the page going by the official title. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]'''  [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 01:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
http://www.shannonsullivan.com/doctorwho/serials/tvm.html


: Don't get me wrong I understand that and really i guess it just comes down to preference as well as a navigation issue when you type doctor who into the wiki you would expect to go to either the main summary of the series or the character, whilst if you typed in tv movie or a veriation of that you would expect to be directed in this articles direction. Ultimately if you really want to change it then i won't stop you but really it's just what people in general think we should do that matters and as long as you have people that are opposed to this move the disagrement will continue. [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 02:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Under Copyright and Disclaimer, SS says that people interested in reproducing his work can contact him, though.  
::Yeah, but changing the name of the article doesn't affect navigability.  Moving the article name maintains the previous links to [[Doctor Who: The TV Movie]].  In fact, I would argue that ''additional'' redirects be created for [[Doctor Who: The Movie]] and [[Doctor Who: The TV movie]] and even [[The TV Movie]], [[the TV movie]], and [[the television movie]] are called for. Typing "Doctor Who" into the search box won't bring up [[Doctor Who (1996)]], but rather the [[Doctor Who|general series page]]


::[I personally would argue that it ''should'' bring up a disambig page, because the three series are sufficiently distinct from each other that they should all have their own pages, along with a page for [[Doctor Who (character)]], which ''was'' the assumed to be a titular character for much of the first four Doctors' eras. It's still the assumed name by the general public, as evidenced by interviewers referring to David Tennant as "Doctor Who". But that's a separate issue, and it would honestly wreak havoc on the wiki to make such a change.]
http://www.shannonsullivan.com/doctorwho/siteinfo.html


::The point is, the title of the page should be the most accurate name, while common, colloquial variants can be redirected there. As it is, the situation is precisely reversed. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]'''  [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 02:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone done so already? Perhaps he gave his permission?
[[Special:Contributions/24.61.9.32|24.61.9.32]]<sup>[[User talk:24.61.9.32#top|talk to me]]</sup> 00:20, June 26, 2014 (UTC)


: Well i am begining to see your point however before making the change i suggest you wait for imput from other users perhapse starting a fourm page will invite more users to the discution personlly i don't mind either way but having Doctor Who (1996) does seem more professional than TV Movie and as long as the TV Movie is redirected i see no real problem [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 03:07, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:This was actually addressed once, as can be seen in the archives of this talk page. However, there doesn't seem to have been any action taken.


:::Okay, CzechOut, your arguments are good ones, go ahead and move it to Doctor Who (1996), with your additional redirects as well. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 12:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
:If you could give the specific section title(s) that are copied, that would make it a bit easier to look into it. Thanks! [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:02, June 26, 2014 (UTC)


: Moved and redirects created [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 12:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
==20 20 Hindsight==
::Is there a bulletin board where such changes can be posted? I've no objection to the move (especially as I just did a move regarding [[Doctor Who in an Exciting Adventure with the Daleks]] with similar rationale), but not being aware tha a change had occured, I've probably created a number of redirect links not realizing it had been changed. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 18:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
A large period of time is implied to have passed since Survival, as the Seventh Doctor has parted with his companion Ace, is visibly older, is dressed differently and is travelling alone. The narration by the Eighth Doctor also states that at this time, he was "nearing the end of [his] Seventh..." life."
:::No board I'm aware of, though I do think we could stand to have a more formalized system of move proposals/debates, as on MemoryAlpha.  However, the solution here was to establish redirects, so you could call it whatever you wanted to and you'd still get here. This article can be accessed by about ten different variations on the title.  I'm sure whatever links you created are fine.  Redirects aren't "bad" in and of themselves; they're sometimes quite useful, as with a case like this.  Actually, the [[Doctor Who in an Exciting Adventure with the Daleks]] is a bit different to this situation, in that one of the actual, copyrighted names for that work now leads to a disambig page.  That's unavoidable in that situation, because of the similarly named [[Dr. Who and the Daleks]]. Most users aren't going to know that [[Doctor Who and the Daleks]] will take them to the book, but [[Dr. Who and the Daleks]] will lead them to the film. So the need for a disambig there is greater than the need for [[Doctor Who and the Daleks]] to redirect.  This is precisely the opposite situation; tons of names leading unambiguously to exactly the same place.   '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]'''  [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 05:20, 9 August 2008 (UTC)


== DVD Releases, 2 different ==
The sentence about nearing the end of his seventh life is nothing to do with how much time has passed since Survival.  The Eighth doctor is narrating with hindsight, knowing he was soon to be shot.[[Special:Contributions/165.225.76.55|165.225.76.55]]<sup>[[User talk:165.225.76.55#top|talk to me]]</sup> 14:53, December 11, 2018 (UTC)


This movie had both a 2001 and a 2007 DVD release.  Are theri any differences between the two?  [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Movie-Paul-McGann/dp/B000S1KTTI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top] [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Who-Movie-William-Hartnell/dp/B00005KB4D/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top]
== Infobox image 2021 (revisited 2024) ==


:Nope, no difference. The 2007 release was a re-release. I'm not sure but I think it was a cardboard slipcover over the top of the original (though I may be wrong in that respect). But the disc and its features were exactly the same. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 12:01, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
The infobox image was changed without discussion last May. We should probably discuss this. Here are the three images that have recently been in the infobox here.
::There '''is''' a difference between the 2007 DVD release and the earlier VHS release, though, if the Geoffrey Sax commentary is any guide. Something about the VHS release being the British transmission edit. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]'''  [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 00:59, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
<gallery width=100%>
EightGettingLifeSuckedOutOfHim.jpg|1 The original image
EightGraceKiss.jpg|2 Briefly featured
The Eighth Doctor.jpg|3 Current image
DWTVM It's alive!.jpg|4
DWTVM Oh God no.jpg|5
DWTVM Who am I 1.jpg|6
DWTVM Who am I 2.jpg|7
DWTVM Who am I 3.jpg|8
Mcgannsuggest4.jpg|9
Mcgannsuggest1.jpg|10
Mcgannsuggest2.jpg|11
Mcgansuggest3.jpg|12
</gallery>
The current image is just of the [[Eighth Doctor]]. #1 is the climax, at least, and #2 is a notable moment with a secondary character. There are probably some other candidates already uploaded that present the main action in some way. In the meantime, I've temporarily changed the image back to #1, as it had been.{{User:SOTO/sig}} 23:17, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
[[File:Seventh Doctor Regenerates - Sylvester McCoy to Paul McGann - Doctor Who The Movie - BBC|thumb|275px]]
:Feel free to add more suggestions below. I'm thinking an image of Eight post-regen could also work. There's a few shots in the scene where he knocks down the steel door you can see in the video to the right. (Dunno if the "Who! Am! I!" scene has any decent shots?){{User:SOTO/sig}} 23:22, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
:: I know this discussion is over two years old, but I agree that the current image isn't particularly good. Added some more suggestions to the gallery. [[User:WaltK|WaltK]] [[User talk:WaltK|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
:::Added a couple more of the leading characters. — [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 17:47, 24 April 2024 (UTC)


== Production Section  ==
== Rename? 2023 discussion ==


Since the Production section nearly the biggest section shouldnt there be a seperate page. Im just throwing the idea out
Inspired by [https://twitter.com/DimensionsInJen/status/1632706911303770113 this tweet], and discussion beneath it, I thought I'd bring up the idea of changing the name of this page to (arguably) better suit its story/content.


:A completely separate page or a sub-page of the article? (Which would be [[Doctor Who (1996)/Production]]). --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 12:55, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
* '''a.''' Doctor Who can be quite confusing, given it's the name of the TV show as a whole.
* '''b.''' Unconventional naming conventions shouldn't be alien to the Wiki where suitable.
* '''c.''' It's only a small pool, but [https://twitter.com/DimensionsInJen/status/1632708343021092864 this poll here] has approx. 750 votes at the time of writing and a large portion is skewed towards "The Movie".
* '''d.''' "The TV Movie" is the title of the official novelisation and its reprint.
* '''e.''' "The Movie" is used on the official DVD release.
* '''f.''' "Doctor Who" arguably isn't the on screen title - that's the logo, which shows up in 99% of title sequences. As such, the product is untitled.
* '''g.''' For newcomers and the not-we, "the Movie" is just a more efficient term which can be easily recognised and understood.
* '''h.''' The screenshot [https://twitter.com/DimensionsInJen/status/1632706911303770113 seen in this tweet] highlights that using "Doctor Who" can just read quite unusually on some articles, since it's the name of the entire series.


Well perhaps a sub-page of the article, how would you make the sub-page is it that you would create the article and copy the information from this page about the Production to that sub-page article (if that makes a little bit of sense) and if you Tangerineduel did that basic stuff I would more than happy to come along and edit it more [[User:Bigshowbower|Bigshowbower]] 08:22, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
[[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:48, 7 March 2023 (UTC)


:I've created the sub-page and copied the information across, but I'm not sure it should be kept, it's been wholesale lifted from the A Brief History of (Time) Travel website. If we're going to keep it it's going to need to be re-referenced with footnotes (properly, not just a weblink at the end) and with more than one source backing it up. I've chucked a [[Template:Inuse]] at the top of it and a cleanup and the base of the article, just to make doublely sure it's not yet mistaken for the actual thing. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 11:23, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
I would also like to add that the on-screen title for Season 23 is "The Trial of a Time Lord", but this Wiki uses individual titles such as "[[The Mysterious Planet (TV story)|The Mysterious Planet]]". I feel this is a similar case and example of the Wiki deviating from the on-screen title. "''TMP''" (et al) also appear on the official releases and DVDs, etc. like "The Movie" does for the 1996 story. [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:51, 7 March 2023 (UTC)


==Ratings section==
: Also, "The TV Movie" is [[The Master (The TV Movie)|used here]]. [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:59, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
* The Ratings section is missing some information, as it needs to be indicated if the number stated is the UK rating or the US rating. Also, since only one number is listed, which country is not included, the rating should be noted. This was primarily a US effort (they showed it first, and its success/lack thereof dictated the decision not to do another film or series), so the US number in this case should be emphasized. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 17:00, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


Are the rights to the 1996 movie owned outright by the BBC now, or is it still through Fox?  (I *think* BBC owns it-- there was footage in [[The Next Doctor]]-- but I imagine the most recent DVD would say for sure.)
:: I support renaming the page as "The TV Movie (TV story)" or at least "Doctor Who (TV movie)". [[User:BananaClownMan|BananaClownMan]] [[User talk:BananaClownMan|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 09:57, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


I want to properly credit the ''actual'' copyright holder for a screenshot instead if just saying "well it belongs to someone." -[[User:Derik|Derik]] 22:17, January 11, 2010 (UTC)
::: Regardless on whether or not we do this rename for x y or z reasons, some options could be [[Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story)]] or [[Doctor Who (feature film)]]. {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 14:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


== How Long? ==
:::: Honestly, any of those suggested by BananaClownMan and Epsilon work, except for "The TV Movie (TV story)" which I feel sounds clunky with the double use of "TV". Arguably the most efficient move would simply to keep what we have but change "story" to "movie"? Or if not, my vote would go to [[Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story)]]. [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:47, 24 March 2023 (UTC)


it is revealed in this movie that timelords have 13 lives. since the Doctor is on his eleventh right now, will the show end when he hits 13? i hope not.
::::: I think that "Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story)" works best. That's the title that is predominantly used in marketing and on releases of the movie, so it's not without precedent. [[User:Pluto2|Pluto2]][[User talk:Pluto2|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:20, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 
Just giving this a nudge - anyone else have opinions on this? I still think the page should be renamed to one of the variants suggested above. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 18:44, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:My preference would be [[Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story)]], I think it makes the most sense, and as [[User:Pluto2]] says, has a degree of precedent in marketing, official releases etc. [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|<span title="Talk to me">📢</span>]]  18:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:: I'll also vote for "Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story)" — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 18:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:::I think Czech's arguments in 2008 that its title at the time was merely "Doctor Who" are quite persuasive. (As such, point '''f''' is simply false in the strong sense.) Whether or not we wish to keep this title is another matter. Czech argues we should because we care about ''accuracy''. Which Scrooge re-affirms to some extent at [[Forum:Relaxing T:HONOUR]]. It's different enough that I'm not sure it's binding here. But we at least need to consider the 2008 discussion and these factors. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:14, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:::Well, there's ''arguably'' precedent, in that our pages for Hartnell TV stories are all named after the DVD releases. And it would certainly be a much more intuitive name for it. [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|<span title="Talk to me">📢</span>]]  19:29, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:: The Hartnell serials is something I've been meaning to review, really. Certainly things seem to be turning at [[Talk:The Massacre (TV story)]] (I'll likely close in favour of ''that'' rename in the coming days unless there's significant new arguments against, now I've been reminded of it). But on the flipside, I didn't mean for [[Forum:Relaxing T:HONOUR]] to have any particular bearing on ''story'' titles, no. And really all the ambiguity about the TVM relies on the extent to which ''Doctor Who'' was really a ''story title'' in any meaningful sense. Sure, it was the legal title of the work, but that doesn't mean it's artistically the same thing, necessarily. [[Talk:Scorpio's Sting (comic story)]] may make for interesting comparison; isn't the fact that it's legally called just ''Doctor Who'' rather more like ''Scorpio's Sting'' having originally been registered as ''Devil's End 1a'' than anything else? I don't believe our preference for ''original titles'' would extend as far as insisting on [[Devil's End 1a (comic story)|Devil's End 1a]]. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 20:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
::: Tbh I'd be completely in favour of splitting the Hartnell serials to bring them more in line with how we cover other multipart stories. (And whatever we rename the Massacre, it'll still spoil it for whoever wants to watch it, because the entire episode is predicated on the premise that you don't know that there's going to be a massacre.) Sorry, off topic. [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|<span title="Talk to me">📢</span>]]  20:50, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
::::I note also that '''d''' is false as well, the novelization is "officially" titled just "Doctor Who", but has the alternative title "Doctor Who - The Novel of the Film". Can someone source the claim that marketing used "Doctor Who: The Movie" extensively? I glanced at a pictures of the VHS release, soundtrack, and script, Czech is correct, they're all just "Doctor Who". (Well, the script has "The Script of the Film" attached. But it's not called "The Movie".)
 
::::If anything, if we insist on changing it, it seems like it should be "Doctor Who: The Film", based on this. But it's entirely possible that there was marketing around the time that's relevant. (I also think it's difficult even to hold the weak form of '''f'''. The soundtrack is literally called "Doctor Who", both on its front and spine. Is this untitled as well? I find this hard to believe.) [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
The newest reprint of the Target novelisation is called "The TV Movie". In any case, I think the main point here is that "Doctor Who (TV Story)" is just potentially confusing, especially to newcomers. At the very least, could we not break the norms just this once and put "1996" in there somewhere to make it somewhat clearer? "Doctor Who (1996 TV story)" for example. If not, well, fine, but I'd still say "Doctor Who: The Movie (TV Story)" would be a better title, for search reasons and because it's at the very least emblazened on the official DVD release.
 
Also, the very fact that one version of the novel had to add a subtitle ("Doctor Who - The Novel of the Film") kind of says to me that "Doctor Who" alone is confusing and awkward for marketing purposes. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 21:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
: ''"The soundtrack is literally called "Doctor Who", both on its front and spine. Is this untitled as well? I find this hard to believe.)"'' Even if it's not untitled, it still sort of ties into my point that for the page on this very Wiki for it, we've gone with "[[Doctor Who - TV movie (soundtrack)|Doctor Who - ''TV Movie'' soundtrack]]" and not just "Doctor Who - Soundtrack." — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 21:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:: Sidenote: Could we not follow Wikipedia's lead here and simply go for "Doctor Who (film)" or "Doctor Who (movie)"? (Or just change "TV story" in brackets to "TV movie".) I suggest it because this Wiki has done that for Cushing - "[[Dr. Who and the Daleks (theatrical film)]]" and "[[Daleks' Invasion Earth 2150 A.D. (theatrical film)]]". We could simply omit "theatrical" and put "film", or "televised film"). — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 22:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
::: I would also like to note that I’m very against "Doctor Who:" titling because we’d end up with a similar situation as ''Doctor Who: Legacy'' and ''Doctor Who: Lost in Time''. There was an old ruling that said anything with that kind of titling should get rid of "Doctor Who:", meaning "Doctor Who: The Film" or "Doctor Who: The Movie" would have to become just "The Film" or "The Movie", and that would be bad titling for this subject. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:27, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
::::The statement was '"The TV Movie" is the title of the official novelisation and its reprint.' This is strictly not the case. Moreover, I note that the novelization didn't ''have'' to say "Doctor Who - The Novel of the Film". Its front cover just says "Doctor Who". On the spine it says both the title and subtitle.
 
::::As for the soundtrack, I'm not sure why SOTO chose that name for the bot run. I can't speak to someone else's intent when they don't elaborate on it. It wasn't the original page title. It was changed during a bot run to "Standardi[ze] soundtrack names". Prior to that it was some version of "Doctor Who: Original Soundtrack Recording" for 7.5 years. I'm not sure how this is particularly strong evidence for the idea that we should change this page - at best it's a good reason to change that one. And, of course, even if it ''does'' establish that on the wiki we've been less than consistent, (which itself is dispositive of nothing) it damns to oblivion your idea that the film itself was untitled. It had a title. It's just one that's a headache for us. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
(Also, the DVD release is ''actively discussed'' in the 2008 discussion over the name. So if you're going to keep bringing it up, please engage with why people then didn't find it compelling and explain why we might actually consider it.)  [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
I think we should also accept that this singular story is an oddity in amongst the rest of the show. Yes, there are debates about Hartnell era stories but at least they all have titles to debate. This is the only story (that I'm aware of) with no title on screen, hence endless debate about it. As such, I think the fact that most fans and people would simply refer to it as "the Movie" has to hold some weight, even if it's only a contributing factor. In a discussion, people can't just refer to it as "Doctor Who" because that's the title of the whole show - surely nobody would say, for example, "My favourite stories are The War Games, The Deadly Assassin, and Doctor Who." Surely instead they'd refer to it as "the movie" or "the movie with McGann" or "the TV Movie" or "the 1996 film" - whatever and whichever, people will always have to give it some kind of 'subtitle' to indicate what they're referring to. Even the novelisation had to. The newest reprint has "The TV Movie" as its title.
 
Also, sure, Najawin, its title was "Doctor Who" but the debate is basically that it's a clumsy name when referring to the movie or when you're re/searching it. "Doctor Who (TV Story)" just isn't all that clear or intuitive IMO. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 22:39, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
Sidenote: Also wanted to note, obscure but in the 50th Anniversary Collection album, the music from the movie is listed as "Doctor Who: The Television Movie Suite", again presumably to help searchability and because it needs some kind of label to explain what it is beyond "Doctor Who Suite". — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 22:52, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:From what I can gather, in 2008, a user said "The TV Movie" is a descriptive term rather than an official title, and only the DVD had that on the cover (well, "The Movie" to be precise). Since then, the reprinted novelisation has also put "The TV Movie" on its cover. And fair enough that's still only 2 official products with that name, but it could be argued that it proves even the BBC feel it's appropriate to 'label' what it is. (They could've just created the reprint with the Doctor Who logo and nothing more, but they opted to put a label/name/title on it, presumably for marketing purposes and searchability.) — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 22:47, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
::I agree with Fractal here. Nobody actually calls that movie ''Doctor Who''. Also, off-topic answer to Aquanafrahudy about Hartnell episodes: I would very much be against splitting those episodes. Not a good idea. You simply can’t hold 60s stories up to today’s standards and ways of doing things. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
:::Ease of search is ''also'' brought up in the 2008 discussion. With the exact same conclusion reached as in [[Forum:Relaxing T:HONOUR]], that the most accurate name should be used, and the less accurate "fan names" used as redirects as this still allows people to adequately search for the article.
 
:::This is also a rather extreme misunderstanding of how that discussion actually proceeded. It wasn't "oh, only the DVD used it, so we can just ignore the DVD". It was "only the DVD used it, and the DVD was released '''''years later''''' and it's a real headache for The BBC to have this be the official title in retrospect, so they have motivation to try and change it, but we care about accuracy in the context of the time, so we just ignore that, it's not relevant." By the lights of the ''latter'' framing, the second novelization is similarly irrelevant. The BBC's changing feelings don't impact our policies. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
 
You're right. Let's just leave it as is. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 01:14, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 17:48, 24 April 2024

Archive.png
 Archives: #1

Move to Doctor Who: The Movie[[edit]]

The DVD releases have named this is as Doctor Who: The Movie. Should we move it in deference to the most recent official title?The Traveller 09:04, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

No. Doctor Who (1996) or, even better, Doctor Who (TV story) are the best choices. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 00:46, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

I have question about Gareth. When the Doctor saw Gareth at the party, he told him to answer the 2nd question on his test. He mention that Gareth will save the world. Could this be an indirect reference to Gareth Jenkins from the In A Fix with the Sontarans bit done on the BBC show Jim'll Fix It? Just wondering. (Also, I thought the "title" to this show was "The Enemy Within", at least according to other references). Hope you can help out. Hotshot70 ☎ 11:31, December 31, 2012 (UTC)

That's speculation, and that title has been identified as a nickname invented by a director or something. OS25 (talk to me, baby.) 20:38, December 31, 2012 (UTC)
Producer Phil Segal suggested it at a convention. 24.61.9.32talk to me 02:48, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

Production section[[edit]]

Given how in depth it is, along with how there doesn't seem to be that many production sections in general that I can think of, should there be citations given for all that information? -- Tybort (talk page) 01:47, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Behind the Scenes info largely copied from "A Brief History of Time (Travel)"[[edit]]

Some minor changes, but essentially cut-and-pasted from here:

http://www.shannonsullivan.com/doctorwho/serials/tvm.html

Under Copyright and Disclaimer, SS says that people interested in reproducing his work can contact him, though.

http://www.shannonsullivan.com/doctorwho/siteinfo.html

Has anyone done so already? Perhaps he gave his permission? 24.61.9.32talk to me 00:20, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

This was actually addressed once, as can be seen in the archives of this talk page. However, there doesn't seem to have been any action taken.
If you could give the specific section title(s) that are copied, that would make it a bit easier to look into it. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎ 03:02, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

20 20 Hindsight[[edit]]

A large period of time is implied to have passed since Survival, as the Seventh Doctor has parted with his companion Ace, is visibly older, is dressed differently and is travelling alone. The narration by the Eighth Doctor also states that at this time, he was "nearing the end of [his] Seventh..." life."

The sentence about nearing the end of his seventh life is nothing to do with how much time has passed since Survival. The Eighth doctor is narrating with hindsight, knowing he was soon to be shot.165.225.76.55talk to me 14:53, December 11, 2018 (UTC)

Infobox image 2021 (revisited 2024)[[edit]]

The infobox image was changed without discussion last May. We should probably discuss this. Here are the three images that have recently been in the infobox here.

  • 1 The original image

    1 The original image

  • 2 Briefly featured

    2 Briefly featured

  • 3 Current image

    3 Current image

  • 4

    4

  • 5

    5

  • 6

    6

  • 7

    7

  • 8

    8

  • 9

    9

  • 10

    10

  • 11

    11

  • 12

    12

The current image is just of the Eighth Doctor. #1 is the climax, at least, and #2 is a notable moment with a secondary character. There are probably some other candidates already uploaded that present the main action in some way. In the meantime, I've temporarily changed the image back to #1, as it had been.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 23:17, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

File:Seventh Doctor Regenerates - Sylvester McCoy to Paul McGann - Doctor Who The Movie - BBC
Feel free to add more suggestions below. I'm thinking an image of Eight post-regen could also work. There's a few shots in the scene where he knocks down the steel door you can see in the video to the right. (Dunno if the "Who! Am! I!" scene has any decent shots?)
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 23:22, 30 July 2021 (UTC)
I know this discussion is over two years old, but I agree that the current image isn't particularly good. Added some more suggestions to the gallery. WaltK ☎ 17:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
Added a couple more of the leading characters. — Fractal • 17:47, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Rename? 2023 discussion[[edit]]

Inspired by this tweet, and discussion beneath it, I thought I'd bring up the idea of changing the name of this page to (arguably) better suit its story/content.

  • a. Doctor Who can be quite confusing, given it's the name of the TV show as a whole.
  • b. Unconventional naming conventions shouldn't be alien to the Wiki where suitable.
  • c. It's only a small pool, but this poll here has approx. 750 votes at the time of writing and a large portion is skewed towards "The Movie".
  • d. "The TV Movie" is the title of the official novelisation and its reprint.
  • e. "The Movie" is used on the official DVD release.
  • f. "Doctor Who" arguably isn't the on screen title - that's the logo, which shows up in 99% of title sequences. As such, the product is untitled.
  • g. For newcomers and the not-we, "the Movie" is just a more efficient term which can be easily recognised and understood.
  • h. The screenshot seen in this tweet highlights that using "Doctor Who" can just read quite unusually on some articles, since it's the name of the entire series.

Fractal Doctor ☎ 09:48, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I would also like to add that the on-screen title for Season 23 is "The Trial of a Time Lord", but this Wiki uses individual titles such as "The Mysterious Planet". I feel this is a similar case and example of the Wiki deviating from the on-screen title. "TMP" (et al) also appear on the official releases and DVDs, etc. like "The Movie" does for the 1996 story. Fractal Doctor ☎ 09:51, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Also, "The TV Movie" is used here. Fractal Doctor ☎ 19:59, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
I support renaming the page as "The TV Movie (TV story)" or at least "Doctor Who (TV movie)". BananaClownMan ☎ 09:57, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Regardless on whether or not we do this rename for x y or z reasons, some options could be Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story) or Doctor Who (feature film). 14:33, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Honestly, any of those suggested by BananaClownMan and Epsilon work, except for "The TV Movie (TV story)" which I feel sounds clunky with the double use of "TV". Arguably the most efficient move would simply to keep what we have but change "story" to "movie"? Or if not, my vote would go to Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story). Fractal Doctor ☎ 16:47, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
I think that "Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story)" works best. That's the title that is predominantly used in marketing and on releases of the movie, so it's not without precedent. Pluto2☎ 18:20, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Just giving this a nudge - anyone else have opinions on this? I still think the page should be renamed to one of the variants suggested above. — Fractal Doctor @ 18:44, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

My preference would be Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story), I think it makes the most sense, and as User:Pluto2 says, has a degree of precedent in marketing, official releases etc. Aquanafrahudy 📢 18:55, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
I'll also vote for "Doctor Who: The Movie (TV story)" — Fractal Doctor @ 18:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
I think Czech's arguments in 2008 that its title at the time was merely "Doctor Who" are quite persuasive. (As such, point f is simply false in the strong sense.) Whether or not we wish to keep this title is another matter. Czech argues we should because we care about accuracy. Which Scrooge re-affirms to some extent at Forum:Relaxing T:HONOUR. It's different enough that I'm not sure it's binding here. But we at least need to consider the 2008 discussion and these factors. Najawin ☎ 19:14, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Well, there's arguably precedent, in that our pages for Hartnell TV stories are all named after the DVD releases. And it would certainly be a much more intuitive name for it. Aquanafrahudy 📢 19:29, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
The Hartnell serials is something I've been meaning to review, really. Certainly things seem to be turning at Talk:The Massacre (TV story) (I'll likely close in favour of that rename in the coming days unless there's significant new arguments against, now I've been reminded of it). But on the flipside, I didn't mean for Forum:Relaxing T:HONOUR to have any particular bearing on story titles, no. And really all the ambiguity about the TVM relies on the extent to which Doctor Who was really a story title in any meaningful sense. Sure, it was the legal title of the work, but that doesn't mean it's artistically the same thing, necessarily. Talk:Scorpio's Sting (comic story) may make for interesting comparison; isn't the fact that it's legally called just Doctor Who rather more like Scorpio's Sting having originally been registered as Devil's End 1a than anything else? I don't believe our preference for original titles would extend as far as insisting on Devil's End 1a. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 20:30, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Tbh I'd be completely in favour of splitting the Hartnell serials to bring them more in line with how we cover other multipart stories. (And whatever we rename the Massacre, it'll still spoil it for whoever wants to watch it, because the entire episode is predicated on the premise that you don't know that there's going to be a massacre.) Sorry, off topic. Aquanafrahudy 📢 20:50, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
I note also that d is false as well, the novelization is "officially" titled just "Doctor Who", but has the alternative title "Doctor Who - The Novel of the Film". Can someone source the claim that marketing used "Doctor Who: The Movie" extensively? I glanced at a pictures of the VHS release, soundtrack, and script, Czech is correct, they're all just "Doctor Who". (Well, the script has "The Script of the Film" attached. But it's not called "The Movie".)
If anything, if we insist on changing it, it seems like it should be "Doctor Who: The Film", based on this. But it's entirely possible that there was marketing around the time that's relevant. (I also think it's difficult even to hold the weak form of f. The soundtrack is literally called "Doctor Who", both on its front and spine. Is this untitled as well? I find this hard to believe.) Najawin ☎ 21:13, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

The newest reprint of the Target novelisation is called "The TV Movie". In any case, I think the main point here is that "Doctor Who (TV Story)" is just potentially confusing, especially to newcomers. At the very least, could we not break the norms just this once and put "1996" in there somewhere to make it somewhat clearer? "Doctor Who (1996 TV story)" for example. If not, well, fine, but I'd still say "Doctor Who: The Movie (TV Story)" would be a better title, for search reasons and because it's at the very least emblazened on the official DVD release.

Also, the very fact that one version of the novel had to add a subtitle ("Doctor Who - The Novel of the Film") kind of says to me that "Doctor Who" alone is confusing and awkward for marketing purposes. — Fractal Doctor @ 21:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

"The soundtrack is literally called "Doctor Who", both on its front and spine. Is this untitled as well? I find this hard to believe.)" Even if it's not untitled, it still sort of ties into my point that for the page on this very Wiki for it, we've gone with "Doctor Who - TV Movie soundtrack" and not just "Doctor Who - Soundtrack." — Fractal Doctor @ 21:54, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Sidenote: Could we not follow Wikipedia's lead here and simply go for "Doctor Who (film)" or "Doctor Who (movie)"? (Or just change "TV story" in brackets to "TV movie".) I suggest it because this Wiki has done that for Cushing - "Dr. Who and the Daleks (theatrical film)" and "Daleks' Invasion Earth 2150 A.D. (theatrical film)". We could simply omit "theatrical" and put "film", or "televised film"). — Fractal Doctor @ 22:09, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
I would also like to note that I’m very against "Doctor Who:" titling because we’d end up with a similar situation as Doctor Who: Legacy and Doctor Who: Lost in Time. There was an old ruling that said anything with that kind of titling should get rid of "Doctor Who:", meaning "Doctor Who: The Film" or "Doctor Who: The Movie" would have to become just "The Film" or "The Movie", and that would be bad titling for this subject. Danniesen ☎ 22:27, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
The statement was '"The TV Movie" is the title of the official novelisation and its reprint.' This is strictly not the case. Moreover, I note that the novelization didn't have to say "Doctor Who - The Novel of the Film". Its front cover just says "Doctor Who". On the spine it says both the title and subtitle.
As for the soundtrack, I'm not sure why SOTO chose that name for the bot run. I can't speak to someone else's intent when they don't elaborate on it. It wasn't the original page title. It was changed during a bot run to "Standardi[ze] soundtrack names". Prior to that it was some version of "Doctor Who: Original Soundtrack Recording" for 7.5 years. I'm not sure how this is particularly strong evidence for the idea that we should change this page - at best it's a good reason to change that one. And, of course, even if it does establish that on the wiki we've been less than consistent, (which itself is dispositive of nothing) it damns to oblivion your idea that the film itself was untitled. It had a title. It's just one that's a headache for us. Najawin ☎ 22:34, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

(Also, the DVD release is actively discussed in the 2008 discussion over the name. So if you're going to keep bringing it up, please engage with why people then didn't find it compelling and explain why we might actually consider it.) Najawin ☎ 22:36, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

I think we should also accept that this singular story is an oddity in amongst the rest of the show. Yes, there are debates about Hartnell era stories but at least they all have titles to debate. This is the only story (that I'm aware of) with no title on screen, hence endless debate about it. As such, I think the fact that most fans and people would simply refer to it as "the Movie" has to hold some weight, even if it's only a contributing factor. In a discussion, people can't just refer to it as "Doctor Who" because that's the title of the whole show - surely nobody would say, for example, "My favourite stories are The War Games, The Deadly Assassin, and Doctor Who." Surely instead they'd refer to it as "the movie" or "the movie with McGann" or "the TV Movie" or "the 1996 film" - whatever and whichever, people will always have to give it some kind of 'subtitle' to indicate what they're referring to. Even the novelisation had to. The newest reprint has "The TV Movie" as its title.

Also, sure, Najawin, its title was "Doctor Who" but the debate is basically that it's a clumsy name when referring to the movie or when you're re/searching it. "Doctor Who (TV Story)" just isn't all that clear or intuitive IMO. — Fractal Doctor @ 22:39, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

Sidenote: Also wanted to note, obscure but in the 50th Anniversary Collection album, the music from the movie is listed as "Doctor Who: The Television Movie Suite", again presumably to help searchability and because it needs some kind of label to explain what it is beyond "Doctor Who Suite". — Fractal Doctor @ 22:52, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

From what I can gather, in 2008, a user said "The TV Movie" is a descriptive term rather than an official title, and only the DVD had that on the cover (well, "The Movie" to be precise). Since then, the reprinted novelisation has also put "The TV Movie" on its cover. And fair enough that's still only 2 official products with that name, but it could be argued that it proves even the BBC feel it's appropriate to 'label' what it is. (They could've just created the reprint with the Doctor Who logo and nothing more, but they opted to put a label/name/title on it, presumably for marketing purposes and searchability.) — Fractal Doctor @ 22:47, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
I agree with Fractal here. Nobody actually calls that movie Doctor Who. Also, off-topic answer to Aquanafrahudy about Hartnell episodes: I would very much be against splitting those episodes. Not a good idea. You simply can’t hold 60s stories up to today’s standards and ways of doing things. Danniesen ☎ 22:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Ease of search is also brought up in the 2008 discussion. With the exact same conclusion reached as in Forum:Relaxing T:HONOUR, that the most accurate name should be used, and the less accurate "fan names" used as redirects as this still allows people to adequately search for the article.
This is also a rather extreme misunderstanding of how that discussion actually proceeded. It wasn't "oh, only the DVD used it, so we can just ignore the DVD". It was "only the DVD used it, and the DVD was released years later and it's a real headache for The BBC to have this be the official title in retrospect, so they have motivation to try and change it, but we care about accuracy in the context of the time, so we just ignore that, it's not relevant." By the lights of the latter framing, the second novelization is similarly irrelevant. The BBC's changing feelings don't impact our policies. Najawin ☎ 22:57, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

You're right. Let's just leave it as is. — Fractal Doctor @ 01:14, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

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