Talk:Eleventh Doctor: Difference between revisions

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== The Big Bang ==
== Main Image Change ==


Does the entire plot for [[The Big Bang]] need to be included in this article? Seems a little much to me. Thoughts? [[Special:Contributions/152.131.9.132|152.131.9.132]] 19:34, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
I want to change the main image for the Eleventh Doctor's page. Can I do that? I've uploaded the image that I would use. [[User:King of the Sandmen|King of the Sandmen]] [[User talk:King of the Sandmen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:25, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
<gallery widths="185">
ElevenInShadowsTDODT.jpg|Current image (#1).
Eleventh Doctor Closing Time.jpg|[[User:King of the Sandmen]]'s proposal (#2).
Eleven Closing Time Crop.jpg|Crop with bowtie (#3).
Eleven Closing Time very close crop.jpg|Even tighter crop. (#4)
Eleventh Doctor in Bells of Saint John Prequel.jpg|[[WC]]: ''[[The Bells of Saint John: A Prequel (webcast)|The Bells of Saint John: A Prequel]]''. (#5)
Eleventh Doctor with fez.jpg|With fez, from [[TV]]: ''[[The Day of the Doctor (TV story)|Day of the Doctor]]''. (#6)
Eleven during talk with Curator.jpg|"Knowingsmile" from [[TV]]: ''[[The Day of the Doctor (TV story)|Day of the Doctor]]''. (#7)
Troughtonian Eleven in Vincent and the Doctor.jpg|Kind, genial smile in [[TV]]: ''[[Vincent and the Doctor (TV story)|Vincent and the Doctor]]''. (#8)
Eleven during talk with Curator cropped.jpg|"Knowingsmile" from TV: Day of the Doctor. Cropped. (#9)
Troughtonian Eleven in Vincent and the Doctor cropped.jpg|Kind, genial smile in TV: Vincent and the Doctor. (#10)
Eleventh Doctor The Power of Three.JPG|The Doctor realises that Amy is "all grown up". (#11)
</gallery>


I agree with the above comment, far too much information on a single story, it's apparent that Smith will be on for at least one more year and this article is already longer than quite a few other Doctor's[[Special:Contributions/78.109.186.10|78.109.186.10]] 23:05, December 13, 2010 (UTC)
:There has to be a discussion first with big pages like this, and an admin has to give a final ruling. I (not an admin) like the new picture better (it shows the Doctor's distinctive hairstyle better and there is no mood lighting), but it will probably have to be cropped a bit. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:32, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


Was just about to suggest the same thing, then realised the two users above have already suggested it. This article should be about the 11th Doctor. The plot of every episode he is featured in is not necessary. There are already story articles which serve this purpose. Try to summerise what he did in the episode using a few sentences. KKIH4, April 4, 2011.
:: Yes — discussion ''is'' needed before anybody (even an admin) can change the infobox image of one of the TV Doctors. But I think in this case it is a discussion worth having. The current image runs contrary to [[T:GTI]]'s best practices, which advise one to avoid overly stark/unnatural lighting. King's proposal is much better, but does need to be cropped severely.  


:: I've created a gallery presenting two potential crops. Although the tightest is the one that policy would recommend by ''default'', I think it's worth discussing, in a special case like the [[Eleventh Doctor]], whether it's worth settling for the slightly wider (but still ''acceptable'') crop of #3, which allows us to see a bit of the iconic [[bow tie]].


:: Thoughts? [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:44, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


Ditto above, the section should be about the same size as the current christmas travels paragraph ~ 10-15 lines at most. PL.
::: I agree. Image #3 seems like the more preferable option. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


I already did all this back in 2010 but it seems to have been reverted since without my knowing. I've cut it down again so hopefully this time it will stick. --[[User:Revanvolatrelundar|Revan]]\[[User_talk:Revanvolatrelundar|Talk]] 16:06, April 14, 2011 (UTC)
:::: Same. I like the cropped one with the bow tie. [[User:King of the Sandmen|King of the Sandmen]] [[User talk:King of the Sandmen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


==Deleted Scenes ==
::::: Good, good! That being said, I don't want this to be just a choice between the overly contrasted current image and the ''[[Closing Time (TV story)|Closing Time]]'' one. It's not often we change a TV Doctor's infobox image, so I figured I'd put a few more options on the table. I've added four new images. Where possible I've done the same thing of cropping them widely enough to retain the bowtie, but of course, any of those could be cropped more tightly if we want. Personally I'd be partial to #8, which I think best embodies the "spirit" of the Eleventh Doctor, and has a nice contrast between the face and the background. But any of those would, I think, be acceptable, and all of them would be superior to the current image. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Do deleted scenes count as canon, because in this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAI7ZcIbzw4&feature=related, he calls himself a "Space Gandalf" and compares himself to Yoda. And theis one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaOPe4emP9Y&feature=related contains good Info on the TARDIS' chameleon circuit and others.
: Those two scenes are not deleted scenes, but were additional scenes written and filmed specifically for the DVD and Blu-ray release. Therefore they are both canon, alongside the two Comic Relief mini-episodes. There is still debate regarding whether bona fide deleted scenes, such as the one from Journey's End that established the whole "TARDIS coral" thing, should be considered canon. But there's little debate regarding the two you cite, except from those who hold to a strict personal (as opposed to official BBC) view that only televised material counts. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.78.43|68.146.78.43]] 14:33, May 1, 2011 (UTC)


== "Cleanup" ==
:::::: While I also like #8, I think it might be a bit ''too'' goofy (particularly 11's eyes). I'd say #7 would be my pick, as I think it sums up 11 throughout his tenure best. [[User:King of the Sandmen|King of the Sandmen]] [[User talk:King of the Sandmen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:21, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


What is with the big ugly tag at the top of the page? "Paragraph, align images" - fair enough, but as far as I can see, the paragraphs and images are aligned just fine (certainly no worse than [[Amy Pond]], and certainly not enough to warrant a "big cleanup"). When can we get rid of this obstructive tag?--[[User:The Traveller|The Traveller]] 20:46, February 23, 2011 (UTC)
::::::: I personally like #8 most as it has a clear view of his face, a close crop, good lighting and shows the [[bow tie]]. My second choice would be #5 which has a clear view of his face, a close crop, good lighting and (in my opinion) better hair. However, #5 doesn't show the bowtie. It's also not from a standard episode which, while fine by me, may be confusing to newer users wondering where the image is from. I'm also quite partial to #6 as it shows the fez although this does hide his hair. [[User:Bongolium500|Bongo50 (aka Bongolium500)]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


== Page Protection ==


Why is this page protected? It seems every page on this wiki is protected and I cannot edit, even though I registered... -- [[User:Ripmssmith|Rest In Peace Sarah Jane]] \ [[User_talk:Ripmssmith|Talk to me!]] 12:35, April 21, 2011 (UTC)
::::::: 5>7>8>6>4/3 Number 8 is lovely, but it's from Series 5 and his hair and hwatnot don't really cement themselves until the beginning of Series 6. #5 gives us a good compromise in terms of look, he's got his Series 6-7A outfit on (which is a perfected version of Series 5's outfit) and his hair is the lok he has from Series 6 forward. [[User:NoNotTheMemes|NoNotTheMemes]] [[User talk:NoNotTheMemes|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:06, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
: It's the practice of this site to protect pages that are "current event" pages - as in with new episodes and information coming in - due to in the past people posting nonsense, incorrect information, rumor, or simple vandalism. As a result, numerous pages are "blocked" from anonymous editors and also newbies. I don't know what criteria is used that allows newbies to post - I assume post count. So If you want to contribute to these current pages I suggest adding valid information to other articles about non-current subjects. You don't need to actually add information; I think improving the wording, fixing spelling and grammatical mistakes, etc, would qualify as valid contributions too. Just remember this is a UK-based wiki and therefore UK-based spelling, grammar and formatting prevails. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.78.43|68.146.78.43]] 14:29, May 1, 2011 (UTC)


== Main image ==
:::::::: I still like #3, but #7 is also pretty good. I don't really like #6, purely because it hides his hair and exaggerates his forehead, and while #5 is good, it seems a little blurry.[[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)


I'm not criticising the current image - it's far better than the Christmas Carol one or the Impossible Astronaut one - but why do we need to change it so often?--[[User:The Traveller|The Traveller]] 07:56, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
I just need to point out that '''none''' of these images are cropped enough, with the exception of the current page image (and maybe #4). Please see our guidelines at [[Tardis:Guide to images]] for what we're looking for in an infobox image before posting any more choices thanks. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 
: I reckon we could probably crop #7 and #8 a bit more and they would still be okay. Though we would unfortunately lose the bowtie. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:09, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 
: I've added two cropped images to the gallery. Are they acceptable? Though I couldn't find any option to add a copyright licence when adding them to the gallery, so they may need to be reuploaded with the applicable "BBC screenshot" licence. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:24, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 
:: @[[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]]: please read the discussion. I'm aware that some of the images ''could'' be closer-cropped. However, I have made the executive admin decision that the '''overwhelming and obvious need''' to include the [[bow tie]] in an image meant to represent the whole of the [[Eleventh Doctor]] may warrant this small exception to our rules, '''assuming''' the community can build a consensus around it.
 
:: @[[User:LauraBatham]]: it is imperative that images have licenses upon upload. I have gone back and added them, which, for the record, can always be done ''after'' the fact by going to the file's page and editing the description manually. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 07:38, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 
::: Thanks for that Scrooge. I did think of adding it after, but I couldn't see how to do it. Now, looking at what you've done, I can see that there is a screenshot template that I was previously unaware of. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 
::: I've added another option (and this time added the licence) which I think manages to show enough of the hair and the bow tie while (hopefully) still being cropped enough. [[User:LauraBatham|LauraBatham]] [[User talk:LauraBatham|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 08:57, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
:::: Indeed, very attractive proposal. I want to be clear that while I think an exception to the "''very'' tight cropping" rule for the bowtie's sake would be ''acceptable'', an option that manages to still crop closely ''while'' showing the bowtie woule be better. [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:16, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 
=== Minor revisit ===
[[File:Eleventh_Doctor_The_Power_of_Three B.JPG|thumb|A looser crop.]]
Following the changes to [[T:GTI]], etc, can I suggest the same image as before, but less tightly cropped? This image also contains Eleven's hair and bowtie which are important. {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 00:01, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 
: Agreed. I'm in favour of this change. [[User:BlueSupergiant|BlueSupergiant]] [[User talk:BlueSupergiant|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 
:: Yes please! [[Special:Contributions/68.33.189.71|68.33.189.71]]<sup>[[User talk:68.33.189.71#top|talk to me]]</sup> 00:51, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 
::: Doing this is essentially just following [[T:BOUND]] in my opinion, given the January debate about this. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 01:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 
:::: Agree with the new image. We ought to be able to see the bow tie and hair properly. [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|<span title="Talk to me">📢</span>]]  06:55, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 
::::: Nothing to add really, seems in-line with consensus, and I do believe I agree with it. [[User:Cookieboy 2005|Cookieboy 2005]] [[User talk:Cookieboy 2005|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
 
: Since there appears to be consensus for this change, I've updated the article. This proposal is essentially the same image anyway so I don't think there's much more discussion to be had. [[User:BlueSupergiant|BlueSupergiant]] [[User talk:BlueSupergiant|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:37, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:53, 13 March 2024

Archive.png
 Archives: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5

Main Image Change[[edit source]]

I want to change the main image for the Eleventh Doctor's page. Can I do that? I've uploaded the image that I would use. King of the Sandmen ☎ 14:25, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

There has to be a discussion first with big pages like this, and an admin has to give a final ruling. I (not an admin) like the new picture better (it shows the Doctor's distinctive hairstyle better and there is no mood lighting), but it will probably have to be cropped a bit. LauraBatham ☎ 14:32, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes — discussion is needed before anybody (even an admin) can change the infobox image of one of the TV Doctors. But I think in this case it is a discussion worth having. The current image runs contrary to T:GTI's best practices, which advise one to avoid overly stark/unnatural lighting. King's proposal is much better, but does need to be cropped severely.
I've created a gallery presenting two potential crops. Although the tightest is the one that policy would recommend by default, I think it's worth discussing, in a special case like the Eleventh Doctor, whether it's worth settling for the slightly wider (but still acceptable) crop of #3, which allows us to see a bit of the iconic bow tie.
Thoughts? Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 14:44, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
I agree. Image #3 seems like the more preferable option. LauraBatham ☎ 14:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Same. I like the cropped one with the bow tie. King of the Sandmen ☎ 14:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
Good, good! That being said, I don't want this to be just a choice between the overly contrasted current image and the Closing Time one. It's not often we change a TV Doctor's infobox image, so I figured I'd put a few more options on the table. I've added four new images. Where possible I've done the same thing of cropping them widely enough to retain the bowtie, but of course, any of those could be cropped more tightly if we want. Personally I'd be partial to #8, which I think best embodies the "spirit" of the Eleventh Doctor, and has a nice contrast between the face and the background. But any of those would, I think, be acceptable, and all of them would be superior to the current image. Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 15:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
While I also like #8, I think it might be a bit too goofy (particularly 11's eyes). I'd say #7 would be my pick, as I think it sums up 11 throughout his tenure best. King of the Sandmen ☎ 15:21, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
I personally like #8 most as it has a clear view of his face, a close crop, good lighting and shows the bow tie. My second choice would be #5 which has a clear view of his face, a close crop, good lighting and (in my opinion) better hair. However, #5 doesn't show the bowtie. It's also not from a standard episode which, while fine by me, may be confusing to newer users wondering where the image is from. I'm also quite partial to #6 as it shows the fez although this does hide his hair. Bongo50 (aka Bongolium500) ☎ 15:31, 7 May 2021 (UTC)


5>7>8>6>4/3 Number 8 is lovely, but it's from Series 5 and his hair and hwatnot don't really cement themselves until the beginning of Series 6. #5 gives us a good compromise in terms of look, he's got his Series 6-7A outfit on (which is a perfected version of Series 5's outfit) and his hair is the lok he has from Series 6 forward. NoNotTheMemes ☎ 17:06, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
I still like #3, but #7 is also pretty good. I don't really like #6, purely because it hides his hair and exaggerates his forehead, and while #5 is good, it seems a little blurry.LauraBatham ☎ 02:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

I just need to point out that none of these images are cropped enough, with the exception of the current page image (and maybe #4). Please see our guidelines at Tardis:Guide to images for what we're looking for in an infobox image before posting any more choices thanks. Shambala108 ☎ 03:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

I reckon we could probably crop #7 and #8 a bit more and they would still be okay. Though we would unfortunately lose the bowtie. LauraBatham ☎ 03:09, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I've added two cropped images to the gallery. Are they acceptable? Though I couldn't find any option to add a copyright licence when adding them to the gallery, so they may need to be reuploaded with the applicable "BBC screenshot" licence. LauraBatham ☎ 03:24, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
@Shambala108: please read the discussion. I'm aware that some of the images could be closer-cropped. However, I have made the executive admin decision that the overwhelming and obvious need to include the bow tie in an image meant to represent the whole of the Eleventh Doctor may warrant this small exception to our rules, assuming the community can build a consensus around it.
@User:LauraBatham: it is imperative that images have licenses upon upload. I have gone back and added them, which, for the record, can always be done after the fact by going to the file's page and editing the description manually. Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 07:38, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for that Scrooge. I did think of adding it after, but I couldn't see how to do it. Now, looking at what you've done, I can see that there is a screenshot template that I was previously unaware of. LauraBatham ☎ 08:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I've added another option (and this time added the licence) which I think manages to show enough of the hair and the bow tie while (hopefully) still being cropped enough. LauraBatham ☎ 08:57, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
Indeed, very attractive proposal. I want to be clear that while I think an exception to the "very tight cropping" rule for the bowtie's sake would be acceptable, an option that manages to still crop closely while showing the bowtie woule be better. Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 15:16, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Minor revisit[[edit source]]

A looser crop.

Following the changes to T:GTI, etc, can I suggest the same image as before, but less tightly cropped? This image also contains Eleven's hair and bowtie which are important.

00:01, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. I'm in favour of this change. BlueSupergiant ☎ 00:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Yes please! 68.33.189.71talk to me 00:51, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Doing this is essentially just following T:BOUND in my opinion, given the January debate about this. OS25🤙☎️ 01:02, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Agree with the new image. We ought to be able to see the bow tie and hair properly. Aquanafrahudy 📢 06:55, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Nothing to add really, seems in-line with consensus, and I do believe I agree with it. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 10:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Since there appears to be consensus for this change, I've updated the article. This proposal is essentially the same image anyway so I don't think there's much more discussion to be had. BlueSupergiant ☎ 23:37, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
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