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| ==Difficult or Unusual Regenerations==
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| In the ''Regenerative Difficulty'' section, "regerations" are mentioned. Is this referring to a partial regeneration"?
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| [[Special:Contributions/90.196.134.106|90.196.134.106]] 16:49, June 13, 2010 (UTC)K.Roche
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| : No, that's someone misspelling regenerations. - '' <span style ="color:midnightblue">I. Am. [[User: Excalibur-117| Excalibur-117]]''-<sup>([[User talk:Excalibur-117|talk]] • [[Special: Contributions/ Excalibur-117|contribs]])</sup></span> 17:01, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
| | == Image change == |
| | While not initially brought up by me, a user believes the image should be updated given the latest regeneration. I personally see no reason to change it other than "it is the latest regeneration visual", but then we never changed it when 11 changed into 12 so such reasoning feels redundant to me. The current also lacks the distracting rotor blocking a portion of the scene. Here's the proposal matched against the current image: |
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| ==Tenth's Last Words==
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| How is "I'm sorry; it's too late... I'm regenerating!" last words? Regardless of whether or not you consider an incomplete regeneration a regeneration, it still makes absolutely no sense to say they are last words when the it's still the tenth alive and kicking afterward...--[[Special:Contributions/203.168.176.42|203.168.176.42]] 17:47, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
| | File:Ten_regenerates.jpg|Current image |
| | File:12_regenerates.jpg|Proposal #1 |
| | </gallery> |
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| ==Ninth Doctor's First Words== | | Thoughts anyone? [[User:Snivystorm|Snivystorm]] [[User talk:Snivystorm|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:39, December 26, 2017 (UTC) |
| Weren't the ninth doctor's fist words simply "Run!" to Rose in Rose?
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| | :I think keeping it up to date is a good idea, it shows what it's like now, rather than what it used to be. [[User:Ben_Moore512|BenMoore512]] [[User talk:Ben_Moore512|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:20, December 29, 2017 (UTC) |
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| | ::Maybe this image should be used if the rotor is really that much of a problem: [[File:12 regen shot.jpg|thumb]] ([[Special:Contributions/24.205.83.199|24.205.83.199]]<sup>[[User talk:24.205.83.199#top|talk to me]]</sup> 02:32, January 3, 2018 (UTC)) |
| | :::The suggested image cannot be used on any in-universe pages because it doesn't have the proper license. As it stands, it can only be used on user pages. [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 02:47, January 3, 2018 (UTC) |
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| Yes his first words was "Run!" But in talking about regeneration the more fitting quote would be after the shop blew up and Rose invited The Doctor into her flat The Doctor is messing about in the living room while Rose is talking. He then looks in the mirror and says "Still could be worse. But look at the ears." Which could be a comment on his regeneration from the eighth to the ninth he may have been busy locating the transmitter of the Nestine Consciousness that he hadn't had time to look at himself after regenerating. That seems more fitting.
| | :::Even if it could be used, I don't see how it is superior to the current image; the Doctor's back is facing the camera and they have only used a golden lightning-like effect for regeneration once so far while they have used the golden explosion/burst the most throughout Doctor Who; even the 8th Doctor and now the 1st have regenerated displaying the golden energy. [[User:Snivystorm|Snivystorm]] [[User talk:Snivystorm|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 10:52, January 3, 2018 (UTC) |
| | ::::Agreed, [[Tardis:Guide to images]] requires images to be distinct at thumbnail level (this image isn't) and it also says "avoid the ass shot" (this image doesn't). [[User:Shambala108|Shambala108]] [[User talk:Shambala108|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:42, January 3, 2018 (UTC) |
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| ==Regeneration posture== | | === Post-fork === |
| I'm not sure why this was removed. This is a significant aspect of regeneration. While it was not seen in the "original" series, it has been seen as part of the standard process in the revival, and Davies has stated that according to the current "rules" the series follows, this is how TimeLords regenerate normally - and there really is nothing in the original series to contradict this given the Doctor has usually been incapacitated and Romana regenerated off screen. Perhaps a reference to Davies' comments could be added, but we should try to keep things in-universe as much as possible. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 04:55, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
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| ::Not sure of the reason it was removed, as I wasn't the one to do it. However, having read the section, it does feel "removable". Too much certainty is attached to the explanation. There are at least three regenerations — 1-2, 3-4. and 5-6 — which shouldn't have more greatly inhibited the Doctor from standing than the ones we've seen in the BBC Wales production. You can't argue you want to "keep things in-universe as much as possible", then cite RTD as a major rationale. In-universe, there's not a satisfactory reason why absorbing the time vortex would have allowed the Doctor to stand, but simple old age wouldn't. The Ninth Doctor had the most traumatic cause of regeneration of the lot, and yet he stood when others didn't. There is no narrative logic; it's just an artistic choice. It can only be explained in an out-of-universe way. It is interesting to note, however, that all but the Tenth Doctor and Romana II have ended up flat on their backs immediately after the initial act of regeneration, though. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 14:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
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| ::I removed it because there didn't seem to be any in-universe evidence that the posture was important. They never actually said the whether the Doctor was standing up mattered at all. -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 02:35, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
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| So, does anyone have any in-universe evidence that the position of the Time Lord during Regeneration matters? Or can I just remove it already? -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 16:39, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
| | Reviving a discussion from 2018, so apologies, but found it interesting. This page covers regeneration as a whole, so might it be worth showcasing different regeneration moments/effects in an infobox gallery? (Those who know me will recognise I'm a big advocate for infobox galleries, as I believe they're a great tool for interactivity and also showing at a quick glance various designs/moments/etc. to new readers and viewers.) I don't think it'd be feasible to put every single regeneration scene in a gallery, but we could perhaps show off some of the notable ones? (In-universe has it ever been explained why some regenerations looked visually different on screen, or not? Curious about this.) |
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| : As we have seen there throughout the TV series there is no set posture / position for a time lord to regenerate only a life threatening injury or enormous free will. I say move it to behind the scenes (original Series lying down / New Series standing up) or remove it [[User:Dark Lord Xander|Dark Lord Xander]] 06:34, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
| | Worth also re-asking the question above too - when possible, is it worth keeping the infobox image as up to date as possible, showing the most recent 'traditional' regeneration (ie. 13-14, since 14-15 was a unique take on the process and given its own name/page)? × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 10:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| == Master=Rainbow? == | | == Specific pages (and a category) for each Doctor's regeneration? == |
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| Umm...has anyone else noticed that when the master regenerated, instead of the usual gold color, the energy coming out of him was rainbowish?[[User:Papayaking|Papayaking]] 01:15, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
| | Just a thought. I notice that more and more pages are being made for specific 'events' in the world of Doctor Who. |
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| It's just the people who animate it trying to make it look more "realistic" (not quite the right word), and less gaudy. I mean, if you look back at the Ninth Doctor's regeneration, it's pretty gaudy and looks like a pretty mediocre CGI job. [[User:BlueBox|BlueBox]] 02:44, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
| | There's a category for 'Dalek conflicts' and each event in the show gets its own page with a description of who was involved, the location, how the event unfolded, etc. There's a category for 'Conflicts involving the Doctor' which does the same. |
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| ==Tardis==
| | I know we have a 'List of causes of regeneration' page, complete with table and brief overview, but I thought it might be worth each regeneration having its own page? The infobox would have an image showcasing the event, alongside a time/setting/location, who was involved, who witnessed the event, etc. The page could then briefly outline events leading up to the regeneration, what the cause was, the immediate aftermath. |
| I know that Russell T. Davies said that after the Master regenerated they decided that that was what all regenerations would look like. However, an in-universe explanation for this could be that all regenerations in the new series (including the one diverted into the Doctor's hand) occured in the Tardis (specifically, the Doctor's after it was put into its coral theme)? I know other regenerations have occured in the Tardis before then but if they ever decided to make an excuse, wouldn't that likely be part of it? [[User:BlueBox|BlueBox]] 02:44, December 31, 2009 (UTC) | |
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| ==Changing gender==
| | My thinking is... you can read the Wiki page for 'Remembrance of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Imperial-Renegade Dalek Civil War' which culminates/happens within it. You can read the Wiki page for 'Genesis of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Genesis Incident' which is a specific event in it. 'Day of the Daleks' has its own page, but then there's also a more specific 'Time Paradox Incident' page to accompany it. So why not have pages detailing each regeneration, too? |
| The possibility was confirmed atlast - Eleventh was worried about it at the end of The End of Time part 2. Someone change it? xD 20:07, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| :: The possibility wasn't confirmed, it was ''suggested''. For a laugh, I might add. :P [[Special:Contributions/95.150.79.142|95.150.79.142]] 22:51, January 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| He was the only bloody person in the TARDIS. Who would laugh if it were a joke?--17:47, July 15, 2010 (UTC)
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| The viewer, perhaps? [[User:Bananas are good|Bananas are good]] 21:10, December 1, 2010 (UTC) | | We have a page for 'The End of Time', but why not a small but dedicated page detailing the regeneration specifically? The page would include information about the 'four knocks' prophecy, the Ood's warning about 'your song ending', then Ood Sigma's summoning, the events that lead to Wilfred ending up in the radiation booth, and the Doctor's sacrifice, plus the 'farewell tour' etc. |
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| ==Regeneration like dying==
| | I just thought, if specific events within the world of the show can warrant their own page, maybe regeneration can be considered monumental enough to warrant detailed pages too? They could be called 'The First Doctor's Regeneration', for example, or more story specific 'The South Pole Cyberman Incident (Regeneration)'? |
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| The tenth doctor said regeneration felt like dieing - looks like in the new series of the show regenerating is basically death for one incarnation of a doctor while another man is born with the same memories. Someone add it to the 'attitude' section?
| | We already have a page for 'The Doctor's trial (The War Games)', and this could either be expanded to become a 'Regeneration' page, or simply accompany one. That specific Trial at the end of the Second Doctor's life is big enough to warrant its own page, so why not events such as 'The Third Doctor faces the Great One', or 'The Fourth Doctor's Pharos Incident', or 'The Fifth Doctor's Spectrox Incident', etc? |
| : I think it's fair to say that, for the new show, regeneration is basically "instant reincarnation". Which is cool, I like that. Though I think it's ridiculous for him to have said "everything I am dies"... because that's not true. I mean, hey, if it was really dying, how could the Tenth Doctor know what it felt like? And he never hesitates to identity himself with previous incarnations. RTD went a little overboard there, I think. [[Special:Contributions/95.150.81.104|95.150.81.104]] 22:46, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
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| : Haha. I was just watching the end of Season 3. Here's a great exchange:
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| :: '''The Master:''' ''Dying in your arms. Happy now?''
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| :: '''The Doctor:''' ''You're not dying, don't be stupid, it's only a bullet. Just regenerate.'' [[Special:Contributions/95.150.79.37|95.150.79.37]] 21:35, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
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| If you look at regeneration as another form of reincarnation then the only thing to survive through the changes would be the memories and self-consiousness.
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| :: In philosophical terms, only the Doctor's accidental properties change. His essential properties -- the things that mean he IS the same man from incarnation to incarnation -- remain the same. And Moffat has made it clear in DW:Confidental that regeneration <u>isn't</u> death. Thankfully, Ten's sudden ''"it's the same as dying"'' shift in outlook for EoT has been discarded as the silly excuse for tear-jerking that it was. As he said to Rose in the CoN special: ''"Rose, it's me. Honestly, it's me. I was dying, to save myself I had to change every cell in my body. But I'm still me"''. Long live the Doctor. [[Special:Contributions/95.150.80.91|95.150.80.91]] 15:37, April 4, 2010 (UTC) | | Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just a thought! Worth putting out there as an idea :) [[User:FractalDoctor|FractalDoctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:42, 14 November 2022 (UTC) |
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| ==Tenth Doctor's Regeneration== | | === Post-fork === |
| Didn't immediately set in? I'm pretty sure it ''did'' and he just held it back for as long as he could. His healing the wounds on his face right at the beginning was part of the regeneration, after all. He wasn't staggering about because of the radiation, he was staggering about because his body wanted to change then and there and he wasn't letting it. [[Special:Contributions/95.150.81.104|95.150.81.104]] 22:46, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
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| *Well, we don't exactly know what happened there. It would be more helpful if we knew without a doubt whether the cellular energy heals the cells and then reconstructs them, or vice-versa, or if they happen at exactly the same time. I certainly think it'd be easier to heal them and then re-arrange, since you'd know where the cells which need to be healed are before reconstructing them, but I have no actual proof (nor can I remember from any episode anything that outright states evidence for any, just that both happen). We know the Master was able to hold back his ability to regenerate (assuming the Simm incarnation of the Master wasn't the final incarnation in his current regeneration "pool", I guess you could say). It'd be a natural assumption that you'd have to hold back the regeneration all the way to death, otherwise it might still kick in. I think what might have gotten confused here is using the term Regeneration to just denote the physical change as opposed to the entire process. The physical change was held back until he couldn't stand it anymore (from my view), but the actual process of Regeneration did start at that point reference above. [[User:Gixander|Gixander]] 21:54, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Humanoid Regeneration only? ==
| | If possible, I'd love to reignite this topic and get others' opinions on individual pages for specific regenerations, for reasons outlined above? :) × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 10:38, 8 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| In article is said "...up to this point, all the main Time Lord characters' regenerations have remained humanoid."
| | : The pages in [https://tardis.wiki/wiki/Category:Regenerations this category page (I seem to be having trouble with linking it)] seem to be all created roughly from March 2023 onwards, after your initial post, not sure if you're aware of them yet? - [[User:CodeAndGin|<span style="color:green" title="CodeAndGin">CodeAndGin</span>]] | [[User_talk:CodeAndGin|<span title="Talk to me">🗨</span>]] | 13:44, 9 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| | :: Oh! I wasn't aware of them. Thanks :) × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 13:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| However according to article [[the Master (Bruce)]] Master occupied some snake-like form (I am nto sure if he regenerated into this form)
| | == T:CITE compliant citations == |
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| == Second and a Half Doctor? ==
| | Okay, so I didn't want to jump into editing such a major article like this for fear of accidentally committing vandalism. On [[Forum:General Discussion of the Fork]], [[User:Fractal|@Fractal]] pointed out that the citations on this page are user-unfriendly. [[User:Scrooge_MacDuck|@Scrooge MacDuck]] confirmed that they are explicitly against policy. |
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| SMProductions added the Second and a Half Doctor to the First and Last Words. Should he really be there, seeing as he is from a currently unfinished fan-made film? [[User:TemporalSpleen|TemporalSpleen]] 15:12, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
| | I just forked the page into [[User:CodeAndGin/Sandbox1|this sandbox]] to make some of the required edits (I say forked, I copied the source in, I don't really know what I'm doing with the whole Sandbox thing). With the exception of one citation - the one in the paragraph about sex changing in regenerations, I think I've done a decent job but would respectfully like someone to look at my work before I even consider changing the main article. - [[User:CodeAndGin|<span style="color:green" title="CodeAndGin">CodeAndGin</span>]] | [[User_talk:CodeAndGin|<span title="Talk to me">🗨</span>]] | 03:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC) |
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| ==Damaging "Energy" or damage to the Tardis?==
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| Folks, yes, the David Tennant regeneration to Matt Smith was extremely damaging... But have we forgotten something?
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| Remember, 10th Doc just absorbed how much radiation? Now we know from Smith & Jones, that TimeLords can absorb radiation, focus it, and expell it..
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| When was the 10th Doc able to expell all the radiation from the reactor? He certainly absorbed it, and absorbed so much that he was forced to regenerate... But he certainly was contaminated by the radiation, but he didn't seem concerned about it... If he was, why did he go to the Bar? Or get close enough to Wilf to hand him the ticket, etc?
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| He absorbed all the radiation, contained it internally, without considering how it would affect the regeneration. As part of the process of the regeneration all that extra radiation/energy was expelled, damaging the tardis... This may have been one reason that the Tardis locked out the 11th doctor.. It was rebuilding, but also cleaning out the excess radiation...[[User:Bschollnick|Bschollnick]] 17:04, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
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| == The Master (Saxon) First words ==
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| Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't when the Master regenerated into Harold Saxon he was commenting on his new voice in his first words after regenerating?
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| I got the box set and I watched utopia after reading what you said. And acctually you're right. [[User:Alpha111|Alpha111]] 17:51, May 13, 2010 (UTC)
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| == K-9's first words ==
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| As all the other words in this phrase mean "hello" I can only conclude that "Ola" should be "Hola"- the spanish word for hello.
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| == 13th/14th/18th/20th/21st Master ==
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| Where did these numbers come from?
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| If you follow the links, none of them appear on the page in question.
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| Tremas wasn't a regeneration, so he's still the 13th. As are the snake thing and Bruce. And how do you get exactly 3 additional forms between Tremas and Bruce, anyway? Or exactly one between Bruce and Yana--do we know that Yana was the 2nd incarnation of the Master's new cycle (or that he was the 1st, but there was 1 more earlier)?
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| And, even if the numbers were canonical, how many fans, much less normal people, would go looking for the Master's regeneration from 20 to 21, rather than Yana to Saxon?
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| It looks like the changes were made in [http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=Regeneration&oldid=343805 this edit] by Finister2, in the same edit which made the huge improvement of moving the Doctor's first words up and therefore getting that section into sensible order. So, I'll just manually revert the names.
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| But meanwhile, why are these even listed, given then only 1 of them was a regeneration? Not every death/rebirth is a regeneration, unless you want to have 500 or so entries for Jack (most of which will just be "*gasp*"). And that's especially true for Yana's first line after the chameleon arch, which isn't even a rebirth-type scene of any kind; we don't include John Smith's first and last lines and the Doctor's last and first before and after being him, which are exactly the same thing, or the very similar changes from the novel, or other pretty similar changes like Donna/Doctor-Donna/Donna, or Rose/Bad Wolf/Rose.
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| I'm going to go back through the history of the page and see if it seems to be a well-motivated change to include them all, and otherwise I'll remove them. --[[User:Falcotron|Falcotron]] 11:48, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
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| OK, it looks like Finister2 added the entire Master's first and last words sections a few days earlier in [http://tardis.wikia.com/index.php?title=Regeneration&diff=337962&oldid=336684 this edit], originally listing the Masters by number; DoctorForHire then edited it to put the names in and link them up properly, then Finister2 reverted them to numbers and also split the "20th Master" into two separate lines, the un-chameleoning line and the Yana->Saxon line.
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| However, the section on The Master earlier in the article has listed his non-regeneration changes into Tremas and Bruce for a long time, with italicized comments added in, so it would be a lot more work than just editing the chart to remove Tersurus->Traken and ???->Bruce. So, I'm just going to remove Bruce's last line, Saxon's last line, Saxon's extra first line crammed into the same table row, and the Yana's chameleon arch line, leaving the pseudo-regenerations themselves without comment. Here are the two charts as they were before editing:
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| {| {{prettytable}}
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| | Master || Episode || Last Words
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| | [[The Master (Tersurus)|Tersurus]]
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| | ''[[The Keeper of Traken]]''
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| | "A new body at last."
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| | [[The Master (Bruce)|Bruce]]
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| | ''[[Doctor Who (1996)|Doctor Who: The Movie]]''
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| | "Never!"
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| | [[Professor Yana]]
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| | ''[[Utopia (TV story)|Utopia]]''
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| | "Killed by an insect... a girl! How inappropriate. Still, not to worry! If the Doctor can be young and strong... then so will I! The Master... reborn!"
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| | [[The Master (Harold Saxon)|Harold Saxon]]
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| | ''[[Last of the Time Lords]]''
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| ''[[The End of Time (TV story)|The End of Time]]''
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| | "Will it stop Doctor? The drumming, will it stop?"
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| "You did this to me! All of my life! You made me! One!...Two!...Three!...Four!"
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| |}
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| {| {{prettytable}}
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| | Master || Episode || First Words
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| | [[The Master (Tremas)|Tremas]]
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| | ''[[The Keeper of Traken]]''
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| | "A new body at last."
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| | [[The Master (Bruce)|Bruce]]
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| | ''[[Doctor Who (1996)|Doctor Who: The Movie]]''
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| | "This body won't last long."
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| | [[Professor Yana|Professor Yana]] (After activating the [[Chameleon Arch]])
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| | ''[[Utopia (TV story)|Utopia]]''
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| | "Not to worry My Dear, when one door closes another must open."
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| | [[The Master (Harold Saxon)|Harold Saxon]]
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| | ''[[Utopia (TV story)|Utopia]]''
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| ''[[The End of Time (TV story)|The End of Time]]''
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| | "Ha Ha! Ha Ha Ha! Ha Ha Ha! Oh, Oh! Now then, Doctor! Oh new voice, hello-hello-hello. Anyway, why don't we stop and have a nice little chat, where I can tell you all my plans and you can work out a way to stop me, I don't think."
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| "Never dying, never dying! Never dying! Never dying!"
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| |}
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| --[[User:Falcotron|Falcotron]] 12:05, May 8, 2010 (UTC)
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| Professor Yana's last words, by the way, went "If the Doctor can be young and strong... then so '''can''' I", not "so '''will''' I". I would have edited the page to reflect this, but it's semi-protected, so I can't do it (yet?). [[User:Memcginn|Memcginn]] 18:54, May 18, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Lead's definition of term==
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| When I encountered it, article's lead said:
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| :The term Regeneration was often used in place of incarnation, but referred to the number of regenerations that the individual had had (eg, the Fifth Doctor was the Doctor's Fourth Regeneration)
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| I've ''never'' heard of the Fifth Doctor being called the "fourth regeneration". He is the ''result'' of the fourth regeneration, but he's not, in himself, the fourth regeneration. The issue the lead is getting to is that people (fans, really, not sure I've ever heard/seen it in-universe) mistakenly call the Fifth Doctor the "fifth regeneration". I'm not sure this statement can in any way be backed up by an in-universe source. Anyone care to argue for the veracity of this statement before I remove it? '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 14:18, May 15, 2010 (UTC) | |
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| :Nup (on the arguing thing). As far as the Doctor referring to his other selves; it's incarnations, selves, lives are the terms I can think of off the top of my head. The wording used in the lead may have come from (or extrapolated from) dialogue in ''[[The Five Doctors]]''. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 14:26, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Ahhh, you're right. One does ask Five "Regeneration?" and Five says "Fourth", but that still doesn't mean he thinks of himself as the "fourth regeneration". One is asking, "Which regeneration caused you?" The first part of the statement is also bugging me, and I really don't think it can be cited in-universe. I know that in [[BFA]]: ''[[The Gathering]]'', for instance the Doctor is specifically called "the fifth incarnation", and in ''[[Year of the Pig]]'' and ''[[No Place Like Home]]'', there's considerable reminiscing about past lives and no confusion between "regeneration" and "incarnation" in either case. I'm sure it's more accurate to say that regeneration is the ''act'', rather than the ''result''. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 15:09, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
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| :::I agree. Regeneration is the ability by which they, well, regenerate, and while the Fifth Doctor did answer the First Doctor's question, the question was more along the lines of "Which regeneration caused you?" (as suggested above) or rather "How many regenerations have we gone through at this point?" As far as we're concerned, the numerology before the Doctor's name ("First" Doctor, "Seventh" Doctor, etc.) is never mentioned on-screen (other than the 11th pointing out his own face and saying "Eleven" in [[The Lodger]]). Besides, even on the article here it says Time Lords have "12 regenerations" immediately followed by stating "13 bodies". Or something similar in words. I think a better way of wording it might be: "The term Regeneration denotes the ability by certain species to heal and rejuvenate the body, sometimes changing appearance in the process. The current Incarnation is always one more than the number of Regenerations a person has gone through, as while each successive Incarnation is caused by a Regeneration, the first Incarnation is brought into being by birth." Obviously someone could clean that up a bit better. [[User:Gixander|Gixander]] 22:05, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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| :::Regeneration is not just the ability to, but also the process of regenerating. [[User:The Thirteenth Doctor|The Thirteenth Doctor]] 22:21, June 17, 2010 (UTC)
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| ::::The line I quoted above again crept into the lead, and I have again removed it. "Fourth regeneration" clearly means "fifth doctor" in universe. Please don't put back into lead without giving some sort of evidence for it from a valid source. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} <span style="{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}">'''14:04:20 Tue '''01 Mar 2011 </span>
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| ==K9==
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| Does K9's "regeneration" belong in this article? Aren't we going a bit too much off the title of the pilot episode of the TV series? It's not ''really'' regeneration, is it? He never actually calls it regeneration in the episode, far as I can tell. The word is mentioned precisely once, in reference to the device that effected the rebuilding. Beyond that, it just seems wrong somehow to equate what happens to K9 to what happens to Time Lords. I'm all for including info from the K9 series on the wiki, but this seems to be trying too hard, based mainly on OOU suggestions like the title and the episode/series synopses. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 15:37, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
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| :Perhaps the K9 info can be stuck under a 'related processes' sub-heading, as this article is mostly about the biological regeneration. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 16:07, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
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| == Biological or scientific advancement ==
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| I can't find it anywhere on the article, but is regeneration a biological process or one that was created by science? If this isn't in the article, I think it should be noted. [[User:The Thirteenth Doctor|The Thirteenth Doctor]] 15:36, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==Correction needed for the Limitations section ==
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| As the article is locked, I can't edit it. The last paragraph of "Limitations" needs to be revised to conform to in-universe style. [[Special:Contributions/68.146.81.123|68.146.81.123]] 22:15, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==First and Last Words==
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| Many of the First and Last Words listed here aren't really relevant. The tenth doctor's aborted regeneration doesn't really count, because it wasn't complete. He didn't change, so the words aren't really significant. Apart from Yana's last words, and Saxon's first words, most of the Master's listings don't belong on this page. Possessing people, recovering from a chameleon arch, and being ressruected are all different from regenerating.Icecreamdif 19:08, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
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| :I question the relevance of the entire "First and Last words" section to this article. It's meant to cover what we know about regeneration itself; a list of what characters happened to say before or after it isn't really relevant. It's like filling [[car]] with everything everyone's said just before driving one. [[User:Rob T Firefly|Rob T Firefly]] 03:54, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
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| ::Well, regeneration is a much more important part of someone's life than driving a car is, but the quotes probably aren't neccessary in the article. [[User:Icecreamdif|Icecreamdif]] 20:52, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
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| == 507 Regenerations? ==
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| Did the Doctor actually say he had 507 regenerations in SJA? If so, is it considered cannon? Was he being tongue in cheek? Is 507 the new 13?
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| : Yes he did, Russel T Davies said he assumed the fans wouldn't consider it cannon, we don't know, I doubt it. [[Special:Contributions/213.107.151.20|213.107.151.20]] 20:38, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
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| :: It certainly isn't '''cannon''', what you meant to ask was is it '''canon'''! And anyway, I think the idea was to remove 13 lives from canon rather than add a new number. Like Doctor Who would ever need a 500th regeneration anyway! The show would have to run for more than a millennium! [[User_talk:Digifiend|<font color="red" face="Trebuchet MS"><b>Digifiend</b></font>]] 04:49, November 6, 2010 (UTC)
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| ::
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| ::: It's pretty clear, from what RTD has said on the subject, that it was just done to throw a spanner in the works and to stop fans and journalists fretting about what happens when/if the thirteenth actor to play the Doctor decides to leave. I don't think anyone is meant to take it as explicitly meaning that the Doctor has precisely 497 further regenerations to come! Just that thirteen needn't be the definitive limit.
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| ::: Certainly, the way it's delivered by the Doctor suggests that he's being facetious, as he so often is. [[User:Bananas are good|Bananas are good]] 21:17, December 1, 2010 (UTC)
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| ==[[The Master]]==
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| When I encountered it, article had these assertions about the Master, and they simply make no sense. How can the first incarnation regenerate into the eighth? Or the eighth into the thirteenth? Where are we getting this stuff? And the BF stuff isn't particularly well-handled. This whole section is extremely confusing. This needs to be reworked heavily. Don't put back into article until it makes better sense, please. {{user:CzechOut/Sig}} <span style="{{User:CzechOut/TimeFormat}}">'''14:18:09 Tue '''01 Mar 2011 </span>
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| *'''First to [[The Master (UNIT years)|Eighth incarnation]]:''' Trapped in The [[Darkheart]]. ([[MA]]: ''[[The Dark Path]]'')
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| *'''Eighth to [[The Master (Tersurus)|Thirteenth incarnation]]:''' Devastated by a high-tech explosion orchestrated by [[Susan Foreman]] ([[EDA]]: ''[[Legacy of the Daleks]]'')
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| *'''Thirteenth to [[The Master (Tremas)|Fourteenth incarnation]]:''' Used the power of [[The Source]] to steal the body of [[Tremas]]. ([[DW]]: ''[[The Keeper of Traken]]'')
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| *'''Fourteenth to [[The Master (First Frontier)|Fifteenth incarnation (NA)]]:''' Used [[Tzun]] nanotechnology to reconstitute himself, allowing him to survive being shot and critically wounded by [[Ace]] ([[NA]]: ''[[First Frontier]]'')
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| ''The account by Big Finish Productions contradicts that by Virgin Books and unfortunately there is no possible way to reconcile this with any existing continuity.''
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| *'''Fourteenth to [[The Master (Dust Breeding)|Fifteenth incarnation (BFA)]]:''' Stripped of his [[Trakenite]] form by [[Warp Core|The Warp Core]] ([[BFA]]: ''[[Dust Breeding]]'')
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| ''The below supports the account by Virgin Books, casting a shadow of doubt on that made by Big Finish Productions.''
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| *'''Fifteenth incarnation (NA) to [[The Master (Bruce)|Sixteenth incarnation]]:''' Stole the body of the [[Human]] paramedic, [[Bruce|Bruce Gerhardt]] after being vaporized by the [[Dalek]]s and surviving through the use of a [[Deathworm]]/[[Morphant]]. ([[DW]]: ''[[Doctor Who (1996)|The TV Movie]]'')
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| ''Most of these new bodies were not strictly speaking, regenerations.''
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| *'''Sixteenth to [[The Master (The Fallen)|Seventeenth incarnation]]:''' Rescued from [[Eye of Harmony|The Eye of Harmony]] to battle for [[The Glory]] ([[DWM]]: ''[[The Fallen]]'')
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| ''Sometime before or after this, The Master's morphant form had found it's way to the early 1900's where it ran amok, possessing several individuals before acquiring the perfect host.''
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| *'''Seventeenth to [[Yana|Eighteenth incarnation]]:''' Resurrected to fight in The Time War ([[DW]]: ''[[The Sound of Drums]]'')
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| *'''Eighteenth to [[The Master (Harold Saxon)|Nineteenth incarnation]]:''' Regenerated to survive being shot by [[Chantho]]. ([[DW]]: ''[[Utopia (TV story)|Utopia]]'')
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| ''The Master had been resurrected to fight in The [[Last Great Time War]] at this point, and probably had a new regenerative cycle bestowed upon him (per such an offer as that made in [[The Five Doctors]]). Although the Saxon Master's body is reconstituted and brought back to life in [[The End of Time (TV story)|The End of Time]], it is the same incarnation as previous, so this doesn't necessarily count as a "regeneration". It is unclear if he was merely unwilling to regenerate until his body totally failed or if he could not because his resurrection was sabotaged.''
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| == Title Photo ==
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| Right, so this may be a trivial point, but then again, appearances are everything. Shouldn't the title image on this page reflect something slightly more... contemporary? Well, that's not quite it, but never mind. Nonetheless, since regenerations have effectively been standardised, what with there now being five regenerations of the same type, barring minor artistic choices, shouldn't one of the post-2005 images be chosen? I would modify it myself, but am painfully aware of a) my technological ignorance and ineptitude, and b) the sacrosanctness of The Caves of Androzani. Wouldn't want to overstep and boundries, now....
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| [[Special:Contributions/86.173.3.227|86.173.3.227]] 17:40, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
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| :It is a good question to ask.
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| :Perhaps the uniqueness of the regeneration is why it is positioned there. Three examples of post-2005 regeneration are present elsewhere throughout the article. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 17:46, April 25, 2011 (UTC)
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| == Time Lord Children ==
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| So Day of the Moon pretty much addressed this issue; can Time Lord children regenerate? And don't give me that Lungbarrow crap because the TV show has primary canon and it goes against the 'Loom' b/s many many times.
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| So I was wondering if the question of Time Lord children regenerating has ever been addressed in the spin-off? And if not... then I dunno. Just a thought of something to maybe bring up.[[User:MegaNerd18|MegaNerd18]] 09:46, May 2, 2011 (UTC)
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| == diden't he die before regerating the 12th time? ==
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| diden't the elethanth die before regerating the 12th time? If they want to continue after the current actor quits theyll have to figure out how to get around this. a question: Where are the doctors ashes beried because i want to make a fanfic where he servives as a deathworm(it's a good idea that the tv series could copy intentioly or uninterntionly)
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| Sorry about spelling.{{unsigned|Great toa nui}}
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| :Please remember to sign your posts with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) [[User:felinoel|<font color="darkgreen">felinoel</font>]] ~ [[user talk:felinoel|<font color="red">(Talk)</font>]] 01:41, June 16, 2011 (UTC)
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| == A way to beat the dreaded 13 ==
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| The article states "At one point it was stated that Time Lords had "packets" of regeneration energy within their bodies, one for each life. These packets could be physically removed from a Time Lord's body, essentially robbing them of their regenerations."
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| So, since there are no Time Lords left, we could guess that every unused regeneration packet could technically be out there somewhere. And, since we know that that TARDIS can be considered alive, maybe it/she, gathered up all the unused packets and stored them for when her Doctor would need it.
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| I can see the episode where #13 is dying and telling all that this is really goodbye. And then, the TARDIS opens up its heart and regenerates him with one of the saved packets.
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| When he comes to, and asks "How is this possible?", his companion says that the TARDIS saved him.
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| What do you think?
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| --[[User:Deb1701|Deb1701]]
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While not initially brought up by me, a user believes the image should be updated given the latest regeneration. I personally see no reason to change it other than "it is the latest regeneration visual", but then we never changed it when 11 changed into 12 so such reasoning feels redundant to me. The current also lacks the distracting rotor blocking a portion of the scene. Here's the proposal matched against the current image:
Thoughts anyone? Snivystorm ☎ 19:39, December 26, 2017 (UTC)
- I think keeping it up to date is a good idea, it shows what it's like now, rather than what it used to be. BenMoore512 ☎ 16:20, December 29, 2017 (UTC)
- Maybe this image should be used if the rotor is really that much of a problem: (24.205.83.199talk to me 02:32, January 3, 2018 (UTC))
- The suggested image cannot be used on any in-universe pages because it doesn't have the proper license. As it stands, it can only be used on user pages. Shambala108 ☎ 02:47, January 3, 2018 (UTC)
- Even if it could be used, I don't see how it is superior to the current image; the Doctor's back is facing the camera and they have only used a golden lightning-like effect for regeneration once so far while they have used the golden explosion/burst the most throughout Doctor Who; even the 8th Doctor and now the 1st have regenerated displaying the golden energy. Snivystorm ☎ 10:52, January 3, 2018 (UTC)
- Agreed, Tardis:Guide to images requires images to be distinct at thumbnail level (this image isn't) and it also says "avoid the ass shot" (this image doesn't). Shambala108 ☎ 13:42, January 3, 2018 (UTC)
Reviving a discussion from 2018, so apologies, but found it interesting. This page covers regeneration as a whole, so might it be worth showcasing different regeneration moments/effects in an infobox gallery? (Those who know me will recognise I'm a big advocate for infobox galleries, as I believe they're a great tool for interactivity and also showing at a quick glance various designs/moments/etc. to new readers and viewers.) I don't think it'd be feasible to put every single regeneration scene in a gallery, but we could perhaps show off some of the notable ones? (In-universe has it ever been explained why some regenerations looked visually different on screen, or not? Curious about this.)
Worth also re-asking the question above too - when possible, is it worth keeping the infobox image as up to date as possible, showing the most recent 'traditional' regeneration (ie. 13-14, since 14-15 was a unique take on the process and given its own name/page)? × Fractal • 10:36, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
Specific pages (and a category) for each Doctor's regeneration?[[edit source]]
Just a thought. I notice that more and more pages are being made for specific 'events' in the world of Doctor Who.
There's a category for 'Dalek conflicts' and each event in the show gets its own page with a description of who was involved, the location, how the event unfolded, etc. There's a category for 'Conflicts involving the Doctor' which does the same.
I know we have a 'List of causes of regeneration' page, complete with table and brief overview, but I thought it might be worth each regeneration having its own page? The infobox would have an image showcasing the event, alongside a time/setting/location, who was involved, who witnessed the event, etc. The page could then briefly outline events leading up to the regeneration, what the cause was, the immediate aftermath.
My thinking is... you can read the Wiki page for 'Remembrance of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Imperial-Renegade Dalek Civil War' which culminates/happens within it. You can read the Wiki page for 'Genesis of the Daleks' for a complete story overview... but there's also a seperate page for the 'Genesis Incident' which is a specific event in it. 'Day of the Daleks' has its own page, but then there's also a more specific 'Time Paradox Incident' page to accompany it. So why not have pages detailing each regeneration, too?
We have a page for 'The End of Time', but why not a small but dedicated page detailing the regeneration specifically? The page would include information about the 'four knocks' prophecy, the Ood's warning about 'your song ending', then Ood Sigma's summoning, the events that lead to Wilfred ending up in the radiation booth, and the Doctor's sacrifice, plus the 'farewell tour' etc.
I just thought, if specific events within the world of the show can warrant their own page, maybe regeneration can be considered monumental enough to warrant detailed pages too? They could be called 'The First Doctor's Regeneration', for example, or more story specific 'The South Pole Cyberman Incident (Regeneration)'?
We already have a page for 'The Doctor's trial (The War Games)', and this could either be expanded to become a 'Regeneration' page, or simply accompany one. That specific Trial at the end of the Second Doctor's life is big enough to warrant its own page, so why not events such as 'The Third Doctor faces the Great One', or 'The Fourth Doctor's Pharos Incident', or 'The Fifth Doctor's Spectrox Incident', etc?
Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just a thought! Worth putting out there as an idea :) FractalDoctor ☎ 11:42, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
If possible, I'd love to reignite this topic and get others' opinions on individual pages for specific regenerations, for reasons outlined above? :) × Fractal • 10:38, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- The pages in this category page (I seem to be having trouble with linking it) seem to be all created roughly from March 2023 onwards, after your initial post, not sure if you're aware of them yet? - CodeAndGin | 🗨 | 13:44, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
- Oh! I wasn't aware of them. Thanks :) × Fractal • 13:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
T:CITE compliant citations[[edit source]]
Okay, so I didn't want to jump into editing such a major article like this for fear of accidentally committing vandalism. On Forum:General Discussion of the Fork, @Fractal pointed out that the citations on this page are user-unfriendly. @Scrooge MacDuck confirmed that they are explicitly against policy.
I just forked the page into this sandbox to make some of the required edits (I say forked, I copied the source in, I don't really know what I'm doing with the whole Sandbox thing). With the exception of one citation - the one in the paragraph about sex changing in regenerations, I think I've done a decent job but would respectfully like someone to look at my work before I even consider changing the main article. - CodeAndGin | 🗨 | 03:09, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
