Talk:Eighth Doctor

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Doctor Who and the Time War and its relation to canon

Doctor Who and the Time War definitely belongs on here, but shouldn't it be placed in the alternate timelines section? It's stated as events from a parallel universe by Davies and in the introduction. Never Forget The Day The 456 Arrived ☎ 20:48, March 27, 2020 (UTC)

A problem with classing it as an alternate timeline is the fact that the story is later alluded to in Revenge of the Nestene. WaltK ☎ 20:56, March 27, 2020 (UTC)

For one thing, an alternate timeline and a parallel universe are two different concepts in the Doctor Who universe. Something stated to be a parallel universe would necessitate the creation of Eighth Doctor (Time War World) or whatever, like e.g. Peter Tyler (Pete's World).

Furthermore, Davies doesn't say it's a parallel universe, he says the story constitutes a glimpse of "parallel events". This could mean many things, and must be confronted with Davies also saying in the same breath that "all stories are true", and, as User:WaltK said, with the fact that in a new story, written this year in full knowledge of Night of the Doctor, he still chooses to reference facts from Doctor Who and the Time War

It seems far more likely to me, in light of the latter comment, that he means it in the sense that we're seeing a glimpse into a parallel history of the show where Steven Moffat did not write The Day of the Doctor and thus Davies was able to release Doctor Who and the Time War in DWM for the 50th anniversary. Which is distinct from the story, in universe, being a parallel universe or alternate timeline.

Heck, "parallel events" can mean anything. It could just be a case of events happening "in parallel", that is to say at the same time as one another. Considering what a brain-bendingly timey-wimey Time War is depicted by Davies in this story and Revenge of the Nestene, what's to say that somehow, the Eighth Doctor and the War Doctor don't simultaneously regenerate into the same incarnation as timelines collapse around them? Weirder things have happened in the DWU. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 22:04, March 27, 2020 (UTC)

Quick admin note (more related to the title than the discussion itself). This story's relation to canon, as far as the wiki is concerned, is the same as any other's: "we don't believe there is such a thing as a "canon" for Doctor Who". OncomingStorm12th (talk) 23:12, March 27, 2020 (UTC)

The stuff in "alternate timelines" mostly refers to versions of this Doctor whose existence is presented in their respective stories as an alternative in relation to a primary version of the Doctor who is in the same stories (i.e. the "Johann Schmidt" Eighth Doctor who is an alternate future for the Seventh Doctor around whom the Klein arc revolves). Doctor Who and the Time War doesn't really fit that mould, so its current placement and framing is the right way to go. Instead of speculating the how and why of it all in the article itself, I think it's best just acknowledge that it differs from most accounts of the Eighth Doctor's final days and immediate future. People can decide for themselves how it happened and fits into their own personal "canon" (if indeed it fits for them at all :P) Toqgers ☎ 00:09, March 28, 2020 (UTC)

This is, I agree, the best approach (and the one, it seems, dictated by policy). We take things as they are, and offer alternate accounts when they're given. "Parallel events" can indeed mean so many things.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 04:08, March 28, 2020 (UTC)

Infobox image update?

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I would like to propose a new infobox image (see right). — Fractal Doctor • 13:27, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

The gremlin in me wants to propose an EU image considering television isn't this Doctor's primary medium. However I expect nobody to agree with me here. Just my thoughts on the matter. {{SUBST:User:Epsilon/signature}} ☎ 16:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Ooh, this is actually really nice. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 16:54, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm against an EU image, but maybe it could be put to a vote? Might be worth getting a gallery going on here, of TV images as well as EU images, so people can then vote on preferences? — Fractal Doctor • 16:56, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I feel unfortunately that the EU may not provide too many good images, as prose is usually unillustrated, comics can often vary in quality, and audio covers aren't the best source. Although, considering that Big Finish promo pictures can be used as valid illustrations now, we could look for an image of Eight in his Dark Eyes costume. {{SUBST:User:Epsilon/signature}} ☎ 21:10, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Added an example. {{SUBST:User:Epsilon/signature}} ☎ 21:18, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I don't think that would be a good idea, in T:NPOV terms. The TVM look is one which all the various ranges agree upon as something the Eighth Doctor did look like at one point, while the Dark Eyes makeover is a quirk of one particular version. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 21:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Scrooge tbh. Also, Epsilon, TV isn't the Decayed Master's primary medium either but we still use an image from his TV appearance. — Fractal Doctor • 22:02, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Same goes for the War Doctor too, I guess. — Fractal Doctor • 22:11, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I didn't expect the Dark Eyes to be particularly the best idea. But when we've a characters with barely three onscreen appearances and hundreds in other mediums, it does strike me a little... unneutral to use a television image.

Perhaps a tabbed gallery in thr infobox, so we can have images from Eight's different mediums? We don't ordinarily do this, especially given that Eight doesn't look that different between mediums, but considering Eight's era is 99% EU content, it may be a special case. {{SUBST:User:Epsilon/signature}} ☎ 22:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)