Forum:General Discussion of the Fork

Index → The Panopticon → General Discussion of the Fork

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Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has worked on this fork. A huge achievement. FractalDoctor ☎ 20:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree. I think if we can just get our SEO in a good place, this is the start to a new golden age of this Wiki. OttselSpy25 ☎ 23:26, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I mean I found out about this after seeing an admin's talk page not knowing anything about it so I'm sitting here insanely curious CodeAndGin ☎ 23:54, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

It only launched properly today I believe, and has (so far) only really been publicised on social media. I'm not sure if we're allowed to advertise over on the Platform We No Longer Mention. FractalDoctor ☎ 23:58, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Given That Platform's proclivities, yeah that tracks. Also, big in favour of this, I've been privately hoping for an indie fork to happen for ages, because That Platform's usability has always been Not Great (TM) CodeAndGin ☎ 00:13, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

We're not supposed to, no. I should bring up here, as I did elsewhere, that IndieWikiBuddy is useless for SEO, afaik. If you click on a fandom link you click on a fandom link, still counts. It does redirect you, but we want to encourage people to go out of their way to click on links to the new wiki and to never ever click on fandom links. Najawin ☎ 00:15, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

You can set IndieWikiBuddy to simply *hide* Fandom results from search pages, instead of using them as redirects, so in that sense you can use it to prevent accidentally going to one of their wikis. Hannah GBS ☎ 21:45, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

I also want to add that I'm childishly amused by all the talk of forking today. About forking time. FractalDoctor ☎ 00:18, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Why can't we mention this new wiki on the old one? What are Fandom going to do? Delete the old wiki? 172.69.43.208^{talk to me} 02:15, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

It's against their forking policy (point #2), possibly maybe. Not entirely sure tbh. Maybe a short announcement can be made, but we also don't want to piss Fandom off. Not worth it. — Fractal Doctor • 02:21, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

They'll just remove it and block anyone that tries. There are some subtle ways you can leave breadcrumbs to the new wiki, but any large notification would be impossible. Najawin ☎ 02:23, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm impressed, surprised, and slightly annoyed because I was in the middle of a big category editing spree that didn't get carried over, but I'll live. I did want to ask about a few things:

1. Are the CAPTCHAs going to stay forever? I understand why you have them, but they're driving me nuts.
2. Can we get a "create page" button somewhere?
3. Can we get the categories made visible on the pages? Right now there's no way to see what categories a page is in and that's not super helpful for navigation.

Also, congratulations on the work. SilverSunbird ☎ 05:01, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Never mind that last question. I just noticed where the categories are now. SilverSunbird ☎ 05:07, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Another thing: I noticed that if a redlink is created as a page, the link stays red on other pages unless the new page is saved, and that might need a fix. SilverSunbird ☎ 05:33, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Interesting! We'll look into it. And we plan to most likely move categories in desktop back to their more traditional location, on all browser widths.

Welcome to our new home!
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 06:09, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, when there's time (and I realize this is low on the priorities, don't worry), putting a link to Guides under Community in the sidebar might be nice. Might increase work in that area. I've thought about a guide for new editors, for one. Najawin ☎ 07:23, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Welcome all!

I assume @FractalDoctor's references to "the Platform We No Longer Mention" were in jest, but for the avoidance of doubt, I'd like to note that we're keeping the high ground over Fandom over this one i.e. it's perfectly allowed to discuss or link to the old host directly if relevant.Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 10:58, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Jest confirmed! The new fork is great. — Fractal Doctor • 10:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Hi everyone. This has been a long time in the works. Sorry about the lack of prior warning: this was the best way to avoid retaliation from Fandom. Also sorry about the lost week of edits. The plan was to launch with minimal (maybe a few hours) of edit loss, but we had to push back the launch for various reasons.

I've added the guide index to the sidebar. I will look into a create page link, but it won't be as smooth as on Fandom. I will speak with our tech team about the CAPTCHAS.

With Indie Wiki Buddy, I would like to point out that Fandom's SEO is only improved if clicking on a link in a search engine: clicking a link from elsewhere, as far as I know, will not count towards there SEO. On search engine's themselves, if you're using Indie Wiki Buddy, the Fandom results are crossed out and replaced with links to the fork. We definetly want to encourage use of the extension.

Bongo50 ☎ 16:16, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I've seen some people question why the homepage is a little outdated. Just wanted to share the ongoing discussion about it here, if anyone wishes to join in. Changes and updates will be along in due course - and hopefully 15/Ncuti/Ruby/etc will be well established on the main page in time for Series 14/Season 1/Season Fnarg II. — Fractal Doctor • 20:54, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Bugs/fixes/etc.

Do we have anywhere currently that we can collectively share any kinks/bugs/things that may need resolving? If no, is it worth at least having this section so people can post anything they feel may need changing? — Fractal Doctor • 20:38, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I believe this is already known to admins/in the pipeline, but figured I'd note it anyway - the tabbed galleries in infoboxes need tweaking so they're either larger or work as a scrollbar, similar to how they were on the other site. And I believe a visual editor is also in the pipeline for release at some stage? — Fractal Doctor • 20:40, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

I just encountered a bug while trying to edit that gave me a "you're blocked" message intended for an IP that definitely doesn't belong to me (one of the two that got blocked yesterday I think?). It went away after a couple refreshes. BlueSupergiant ☎ 23:22, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Weirdly, I had that too this morning. I posted on Bongo50's talk page about it. What it did alert me to, however, was the fact that when I was blocked I couldn't even post on an admin's talk page... so if someone gets a block, is there just zero way for them to contact admins now to discuss it? — Fractal Doctor • 23:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Every thread in the Panopticon Archives is editable by anyone. This is, incidentally, a chance to solve a small problem we've had for years, where there are ~150 threads that are unsorted in the categories in the existing archives. Doing so is largely just a matter of busy work, and I'm willing to do this tomorrow if admins are fine with letting regular users fiddle with it, check their work, and then lock the threads afterwards. I've spent enough time staring at the archives to have a rough idea of what should go where. Najawin ☎ 09:32, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Tabbed infoboxes will be improved, yes. Visual editor should be coming at some point. That blocking thing should just be a caching issue. Let us know if it happens again. You should be able to edit your own talk page when blocked. It's not ideal, but it'll do while we think of a better solution. In my eyes, feel free to add those categories. Protection settings should have carried across. Odd. I'll run a bot to fix it when you're done. Bongo50 ☎ 14:39, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

The "View recent changes (for all boards)" link in the forums homepage links back to FANDOM atm - CodeAndGin | 🗨 | 01:35, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Okay, so, interestingly, some of them were protected, even if most weren't. There are 15 at the bottom, primarily, though, not entirely, from the 2023+ era, that I can't add the categories to. There are another 1-2 that don't really belong in any section. And I would, of course, greatly appreciate anyone to check my work. Not being an admin in some instances this does feel a little too like deciding on consensus for my liking, even if the threads in question have already been closed, sometimes for over a decade. Some of those were really messy to categorize. Najawin ☎ 08:05, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Will there be a way to more easily add categories? On Fandom, it was possible to click "+Cat" in the categories section at the bottom of the page to add them without having to go into the full page editor. I can see we now have a categories box at the side of the page, but there doesn't appear to be a way of adding to these without editing the page. Just wondering if that's something that might be implemented? (Congratulations on the work that's been done with the fork. This new site looks great!) 66 Seconds ☎ 16:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I intend to set something up in the near future. Bongo50 ☎ 21:31, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Desktop/mobile view

I really don't like the new desktop look. It just looks like a slightly different version of the mobile view. I'm an old-fashioned weirdo who prefers to do his phone-based edits on what looks like a desktop monitor because he finds the mobile view too constricting. WaltK ☎ 14:50, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Can you elaborate on what you don't like? Mobile and desktop should look quite different, so it's possible you're getting served the mobile skin on desktop by mistake. Bongo50 ☎ 15:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Hi WaltK, I accidentally clicked on to mobile view while I was on desktop and it puzzled me for a minute. You can scroll to the very bottom of the page where, on the right, it should simply say "Desktop". You can click this to revert it back to the desktop theme. It's a toggle. Desktop: https://tardis.wiki/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_Wiki&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop / mobile view: https://tardis.wiki/w/index.php?title=Doctor_Who_Wiki&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile — Fractal Doctor • 19:27, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Just to add to the above, Bongo, maybe it would be helpful if the "Desktop" link in the bottom right of desktop was made a little clearer by saying "Desktop view" or "Toggle: Desktop version" if this can be edited? Or maybe even two extra links on the left hand sidebar that say "Desktop view" and "Mobile view" under an "Accessibility" heading? Just a thought. — Fractal Doctor • 19:29, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Changing that text is easy. The link now says "Mobile view" on desktop and "Desktop view" on mobile. Bongo50 ☎ 19:37, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

So it turns out, in order to get the new desktop view to more closely resemble the old one, I just have to turn my phone to landscape. Which is… not ideal (I'm very much used to doing everything in portrait), and even this new iteration isn't perfect; the contents box now takes up the entire space between the pages intro and first section. WaltK ☎ 20:22, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Assuming I've read you correct, WaltK, you're using your phone but using "desktop view"? If this is the case, I've attached a screenshot (right) of what I see. Is this not what you're seeing? / Is this not what you're wanting? — Fractal Doctor • 20:30, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Have some images:

• 

  Old desktop, in portrait and landscape.

• 

  New desktop in portrait.

• 

  New desktop in landscape. Looks pretty close to the old…

• 

  …but then it gets wonky. Here we have a bunch of blank space below the intro for the remaining duration of the infobox.

• 

  Followed by the big honking contents box.

Oh! I see what you're saying, WaltK. In order to get it to look like it does in my screenshot above, I had to change my browser setting on my phone itself to "desktop site", rather than just hitting "desktop view" on this Wiki, if that makes sense. Does your phone browser have that option, as it may work better for you? — Fractal Doctor • 20:36, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Is anyone else having it that cite links are going haywire at the bottom of the pages? Like on the Second Doctor page after the "Habits and quirks" subheading. BananaClownMan ☎ 20:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

I think I get what you mean, Fractal. But alas, it just doesn't want to play ball. WaltK ☎ 20:47, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

To BananaClownMan: yes, I'm aware of this issue. I fear that there may be no good fix other than to either:

• spend more money to upgrade our hardware
• split these longer pages and enforce harsh page-length limits on any page using {{cite source}}

To WaltK: I can probably make an option to not have the desktop version adapt to smaller screens. I will see what I can do in the next few days. Bongo50 ☎ 20:48, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Cite links

Is anyone else having it that cite links are going haywire at the bottom of the pages? Like on the Second Doctor page after the "Habits and quirks" subheading. BananaClownMan ☎ 20:35, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Ah yes, me too. Just a small screenshot, but it's throughout more of the page/s. — Fractal Doctor • 20:52, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I'm aware of this issue. I fear that there may be no good fix other than to either:

• spend more money to upgrade our hardware
• split these longer pages and enforce harsh page-length limits on any page using {{cite source}}

Bongo50 ☎ 21:57, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Is this an issue of page length, or of number of instances of using {{cite source}}? If the former, we can try to do the biography subpage trim sooner rather than later. If the latter, we can enforce strict policies on number of sources to be cited for each statement. Najawin ☎ 22:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Just tested on Forum:Rule 4 by Proxy and its ramifications: considered in the light of the forum archives, one of the longest editable pages I know of that doesn't have a substantial number of instances of {{cite source}}. It worked fine, so it seems that the issue comes from number of calls to {{cite source}}. My suggestion: If a page has a substantial number of citations on it, when citing a statement that has multiple sources that could be listed, use one of each prefix type at most for that particular statement, then say ("et al" or "etc", depending on Forum:Etc. vs et al.). The exception to this rule being when it requires two sources together to imply the statement we've written, so neither source in isolation actually shows the thing we're saying. Call this policy "T:CLEAN CITE" or something, and whenever we trim things down use that as the edit summary, so if we ever get better servers people can go back through the history and put back in the info by just looking for that policy. Najawin ☎ 03:02, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Yes, the problem is very much the number of {{cite source}} uses. That solution would probably do the job. Other solutions would be to trim the main page biography so that some sources are excluded (controversial, I know), or to split other sections that use citations into their own subpages. We could also consider combining multiple of these solutions if none remove enough uses by themselves. No solution is ideal. Bongo50 ☎ 13:56, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

I mean, my view on the first option is very well known. But that was on Fandom, this is here. Different restrictions for different hardware. If it's necessary to do that, and the other options don't work, you'll have no complaint from me. But I'd like to try the other options first. (Note:I feel the same way about image storage. We increased size limits on images b/c of Fandom's ability to handle them. If we need to decrease it again, I think that's fine.) Najawin ☎ 04:01, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

If the problem is the number rather than the length, that won't fix it for articles that require listing stories, liker List of appearances or timeline theory pages. Sure, subpaging is an option, but it's a rather short term solution. I think the best two ways to solve this particular conundrum would be to either A) Pay up for upgraded hardware and accept the cost as the price of independence, or B) go back to the old citing and cease using {{cite source}}, which continuous to course more problems than it fixes, despite the advantages it has. BananaClownMan ☎ 09:46, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Appearance lists don't use {{Cite source}}, though. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️

Faded infobox fields

Hopefully just a minor one that can be easily fixed; infobox fields are now really faded and hard to see, at least on my end. WaltK ☎ 09:37, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

General questions about the Tardis Wiki fork

Adding this section for any questions about the fork/the new version of Tardis Wiki that people may have.

I was curious - is the "topical pages" on the sidebar hand picked by admins? Or is it like the old host whereby it'll update with regularly visited pages, etc? (I'd also like to note that I think it might be worth adding "Cybermen" to "Other useful pages", so the "big three" of Daleks/Master/Cybermen are together. Maybe even "TARDIS" too?) — Fractal Doctor • 20:38, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

The entire sidebar is handpicked and can be updated by admins at MediaWiki:Sidebar. I'm very open to suggestions. I will add Cybermen now. Bongo50 ☎ 14:40, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Good to know. I like that it's completely customisable - especially the topical pages. — Fractal Doctor • 18:36, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

What does this mean for swear words? I know Fandom was quite strict and censored articles like f*ck and f*ck buddy where they had previously been uncensored. Now that this wiki is independent, will these articles be uncensored? Other words like shit remain so afterall. 172.70.85.26^{talk to me} 04:21, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

Are we still planning on doing the whole Rassilon/Visionary/Atropos archives split on the forums? I spent like 20 minutes trying to find an archive forum thread (that I didn't 100% remember the exact name of) that ended up being in the "Atropos archives", which aren't set up / the category was never created, so I can't get to it without using search. Najawin ☎ 23:05, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

I believe that SOTO is going to go back to working on forum archives soon. Bongo50 ☎ 09:57, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Sure, I just meant that categorization scheme/split. Just curious! Najawin ☎ 10:05, 2 March 2024 (UTC)