Talk:Fifteenth Doctor

Fifteenth Doctor

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Now that he's properly debuted, it may be time to consider an image that's actually from his first TV appearance… Some options to get us started, but #2 and #3 are a bit too grainy for my own liking.

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  1. 6
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  1. 7
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  1. 8
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  1. 8b
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  1. 9
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  1. 10

More options welcome. And yes, we'll doubtless do this all over again once he settles into the definitive costume we've seen elsewhere, but hey. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 12:02, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I have added #4 and #5. I know they are wide, but I figure it's best to upload wide ones that could then be cropped slightly if chosen. (Also, just as a heads up, if people want to avoid low quality or grainy caps, "The Tragical History Tour" website is a great resource here. — Fractal Doctor @ 12:05, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

My vote would go to 2. I don't like how 1 crops out the top of the head and the lighting looks a bit off in 3, 4 and 5. Bongo50 ☎ 12:54, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

(Fair, but for the avoidance of doubt, #1 isn't cropped at all, this is how the shot is presented in the episode.) Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 13:04, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I would also echo Scrooge earlier about doing this all over again in a few weeks, potentially. So maybe we could just wait it out? The current image we have is at least an image of Ncuti (compared to the one we had of 14 which was from a comic for the longest time), and at least the upcoming special will have Ncuti in his more recognisable costume from officially released promo pics and trailers — Fractal Doctor @ 13:06, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Er, redacted the spoiler, there. We could tag this talk page with {{spoiler}}, I suppose, but that doesn't seem necessary. Scrooge MacDuck ⊕ 13:33, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I also support waiting until the upcoming episode is broadcast. There is not much from The Giggle to work with (although much more than Fourteen in TPotD!).

Furthermore, none of the suggesting images of Fifteen are good IMHO. The shots of Fifteen in the TARDIS interior are bad considering the extremely unnatural lighting, and the helipad scenes also suffer from a slightly yellow colour grade, as well as the fact that he is not in his main costume. If, as established on Talk:Fourteenth Doctor, the Fourteenth Doctor cannot be missing even just his tie in an image, why are we considering images where Fifteen is in Fourteen's clothes?

Currently, the Whotopia image is best as it shows Fifteen in his main costume, the lighting is decent, it's not grainy, and, despite being from a random book, is a actual photo of Fifteen.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

15:15, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Also, none of these images show Fifteen's brighter personality, which is pretty evident from even just The Giggle. His infobox image should ideally show him smiling, so, another reason to wait.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

15:18, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

I would be happy to wait even until Series 14/Season 1 airs for more possibilities, but I've added two further screengrabs [#6 and #7] of the 15th Doctor to the gallery in case anyone likes them. — Fractal Doctor @ 21:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

I prefer #6's cropping, but I'd rather have one where he's smiling. WaltK ☎ 21:10, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

Concur. #6 is far and away the best image for the infobox so far. Snivy ✦ The coolest Pokemon ever ✦ 00:57, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Added some more image choices. BlueSupergiant ☎ 01:24, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Definitely prefer these choices, 8 and 9 are the best ones so far. StevieGLiverpool ☎ 17:01, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

Me too, but I'd like wait a little while to see if the BBC uploads any 4K clips onto YouTube which we can pull screengrabs from.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

17:05, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

I agree too! #9 is definitely the best looking one! Lady Junky @ 02:09, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

I also love #9. — Fractal Doctor @ 20:34, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

Although it's not directly pertinent to this discussion, someone on the Fandom Wiki believes the current image is AI, which I am 99.9% sure is not the case. It's bugging me, I wanna say my piece, but I don’t want to edit on Fandom.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

01:56, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Oh yes, it's very funny. But then again, I find the entire "anti AI art" discourse alternatively hilariously funny and wildly infuriating. People saying things that are sort of obviously false is par for the course. Najawin ☎ 02:12, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Even if it is AI (note: it isn't, and some people just think Photoshop/editing = AI now), it's officially licensed by the BBC so *shrug* I'm sure we'll likely update it once Series 14/Season 1/Fnarg has aired anyway. × Fractal • 17:52, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

tbf, any "smart" tools in photoshop are AI. Just, uh, not the sort of AI that anyone is talking about these days. Najawin ☎ 19:40, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, "modern" "AI" isn't new software, it's just stuff that's existed for decades improving, companies ramping up the marketing for it, and doing shady shit like training the software on images they'ge taken without consent.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

22:35, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay, but so does Google. Like half the load bearing infrastructure on the modern web is based on the notion that data crawling is fair use. (See, for instance, hiQ Labs v. LinkedIn. If you do so in line with the relevant ToS, it's legal.) It's just an insane thing to complain about. In order to save artists (and, well, Adobe Firefly would still exist, so good luck with that), you'd destroy the internet as we know it. Now, are these models sufficiently transformative to actually be fair use? I mean, hasn't been litigated yet. (I think in principle yes, in practice there are concerns over things like overfitting and this.) But the fact that they're not asking people isn't really relevant, it's the transformative aspect that matters. (Also, even if the training is itself fair use, that wouldn't mean prompting would be fair use. That's a whole 'nother can of worms.) Najawin ☎ 23:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

In use

This page is currently using the "In use" template to warn off other users while one user makes extensive edits. However, I don't think the template was meant for such popular and current pages. There are probably a lot of editors who wish to edit this page at this time. Shambala108 ☎ 00:42, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Edit summary

As I don't have enough characters in the edit summary to explain my edits, I am doing so here:

1. AFAIK, RTD's intent is not that the TARDIS was cloned but it was brough back from the future, like Fifteen. This is also why there is a jukebox in Fifteen's but not in Fourteen's, as Fourteen hasn't placed it in his yet.
2. I'm restoring the use of {{note}} with the section about POEM: Contents ^[+]Loading...["Contents (poem)"], as it is still a little bit of a contentious assertion even though the poem "fits" with Fifteen. I would feel comfortable if we just had a little more evidence, in- or out-of-universe, to strengthen the case.
3. Correcting a few typos.
4. Adding a few links.
5. Adding and clarifying some information about TV: The Church on Ruby Road ^[+]Loading...["The Church on Ruby Road (TV story)"] and its novelisation ^[+]Loading...{"noital":"1","1":"The Church on Ruby Road (novelisation)","2":"its novelisation"}.
6. Rewording the bit about PROSE: First Day of the Doctor ^[+]Loading...["First Day of the Doctor (short story)"].
7. Reverting how AUDIO: The World Tree ^[+]Loading...["The World Tree (audio story)"] was phrased as the change resulted in a single sentence being around a paragraph long.
8. The #Other realities section is basically an extension of the biography section, so it should be part of the biography section, not a separate one.
9. Adding a {{section stub}} template to #Personality as it contains a good amount of stuff about him; I'll probably add this myself as I've almost read all of the novelisation.
10. As much as I hate to revert an entire section, as I know some good edits have gone into it, those hidden notes that sort the #Psychological profile section are extremely helpful, and, if anything, are more important to have when the section is less detailed as when more information is added its easier to tell where to place new information.
11. The article of clothing worn by Fifteen under his trenchcoat is seemingly a hybrid between a polo shirt and a cardigan.
12. I'm restoring the #Costume section as it is useful to actually document what clothes the Doctor wears from an out-of-universe perspective, as it'll allow room to discuss if they're custom made, bought from a business, etc.
13. And finally, the #Other matters shouldn't be renamed to "In popular culture", as several pieces of information there aren't from popular culture, and the name "Other matters" is consistent with other pages.

I think this is everything.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

16:42, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Just to help add to this, yes, it is stated in the Commentary for The Giggle by Russell about 55 minutes in that "fandom will worry that that is a new TARDIS and not the old TARDIS. Ncuti's TARDIS. And I'm here to say... In a story to come, there is proof that it is still the old TARDIS. That's all I'm saying." - so yes, it's not a clone.

Agreed regarding Contents - we do have to be careful how we present that one...

And yes, what Ncuti wears is a 60's-style polo cardigan with a zipper. They're sorta coming back into style now, but they've been rather niche for a long time, but yeah, that is what it is. (And related to that, I agree, we should have coverage of the costumes of a Doctor in an OoU perspective. It's a handy resource to have. Especially as I'm aware the jeweller that made Ncuti his custom jewellery has started listing up for making replications. (And of course, as time progresses, we are going to have a lot of fashion to document when it comes to Fifteen.)

JDPManjoume ☎ 22:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

@BananaClownMan: If you are going to remove large chunks of the page, the onus is really on you to make sure people are happy with it's removal. I would've had to spend easily an entire hour going through the section and restructuring it, which is something I shouldn't have to do because you removed parts of the page without consideration for other users.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

10:59, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I'm not really removing anything, it just looks that way because the hidden notes dwarf the phycological notes I added. If anything, it is you removing information without the consideration of others, since the information lost helped build his character profile, which took me longer than an hour to construct. I created these hidden notes in 2019 to help bring structure to the psychological profiles of the Doctors, but I had the benefit of them all having pre-constructed profiles to work off of. As seen with the Fourteenth Doctor, whom didn't have the hidden nots until after his brief tenure, it is best to just jot down notes as we go until we can make something more concrete, with thew earliest opportunity being at the end of his first season. For that reason, it is best to wait until then to use the hidden notes, because a lot of them are going to be blank at the moment, and that will effect the page layout with double spaces between paragraphs. BananaClownMan ☎ 11:38, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

To help try and resolve this argument, I can revert to the hidden notes version and then manually add back in BCM's edits... thus, we can all be satisfied. I certainly think there is merit in having the hidden notes. Given we have Mancopolis ongoing, and an upcoming FCBD comic special; it's unlikely that those notated sections are going to stay blank. I'll also add where I didn't before that I am in agreement about the etc. for the jewellery sourcing... Otherwise, we are surely going to have a long list: the 2023 annual, Mancopolis & Whotopia already come to mind as having figured the Fifteenth Doctor as such. JDPManjoume ☎ 11:47, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Very kind of you. As some feedback, remember to check the hidden notes, as they still said Fourteenth Doctor. I've readded my updates to phycological profiles in conjunction with User:JDPManjoume readding the hidden notes. It only took a few minutes and didn't involve any "meticulously comb[ing]". Now everyone can be happy. BananaClownMan ☎ 18:48, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

'Finding Fifteen'

Is there any way we could add this video to the page? Not sure where - probably "Behind the Scenes"? — Fractal • 20:59, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Videos can be suggested at Tardis talk:Video recommendations. Cookieboy 2005 ☎ 21:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Oh, thank you! :) — Fractal • 21:48, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

Scottish-Rwandan

This article says he has a Scottish-Rwandan accent. Is there any source that confirms that? Because that just seems conjectural based on Ncuti Gatwa himself. If you watched Fifteen without any context of the actor playing him, would you really be able to pinpoint the accent so specifically? It cites The Giggle but I don't think he ever said anything about his accent in that episode, let alone describe it as such. 85.255.234.104^{talk to me} 00:10, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Non-heterosexual?

I get that Ncuti himself is queer but when has this been confirmed to be the case for the Fifteenth Doctor? This very article even states that this has yet to be seen in the "a queer incarnation?" section. Does placing him in the "non-heterosexual individuals" category not contradict this? 185.69.144.196^{talk to me} 18:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Hmm. The section is out of date — I think his allusion to "a long, hot summer with Harry Houdini" at least deserves consideration here. (Granted this may very well have been an event in a past incarnation, but Gatwa certainly delivers the line with a kind of flirtatious emphasis that conveys he's very much still into the idea.) Though I'm open to the idea that innuendo of that kind is still too tenuous for the category, it should certainly be added into the section. --Scrooge MacDuck ☎ 20:48, 26 May 2024 (UTC)

Dot and Bubble ^[+]Loading...["Dot and Bubble (TV story)"] now has made it much more explicit. StevieGLiverpool ☎ 09:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)