Forum:Magnus, Divided Loyalties and more: Difference between revisions
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::I think from that incorrect assumption you running with that theory and creating an argument to sustain it. But going by your initial point that began this discussion, what appears in ''Flashback'' is pretty much what we've got on this wiki at the moment. Russell might have made a mistake in his editing of the strip, but later he didn't attempt a ret-con of the story, he read McIntee's ''[[The Dark Path (novel)|The Dark Path]]'' which is where Koschei comes from and wrote Magnus/the War Chief into ''Divided Loyalties'', influenced in part by ''Flashback''. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 06:37, November 7, 2012 (UTC) | ::I think from that incorrect assumption you running with that theory and creating an argument to sustain it. But going by your initial point that began this discussion, what appears in ''Flashback'' is pretty much what we've got on this wiki at the moment. Russell might have made a mistake in his editing of the strip, but later he didn't attempt a ret-con of the story, he read McIntee's ''[[The Dark Path (novel)|The Dark Path]]'' which is where Koschei comes from and wrote Magnus/the War Chief into ''Divided Loyalties'', influenced in part by ''Flashback''. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] / '''[[User talk:Tangerineduel|talk]]''' 06:37, November 7, 2012 (UTC) | ||
I'm not sure you fully understand the point. Well, points actually. It started off as one thing, but is now a multi-purpose thing. However, separating them doesn't give a proper idea. which is why the original discussion at the Magnus discussion page is relevant to this discussion here. Even in a simplified, "bullet point", form. Gray and Russell both stated that Flashback was a Master origin story. Had this wiki existed then, it would have been a no-brainer to list that as a Master story. In fact, many wikis, books etc. still do just that. So, that was the point. Someone else(not me!) then stated "Are you saying the War Chief is the Master?" At that stage that wasn't my intention at all.But, after being spurred on, I found both narrative and real-world elements that showed they are. Then someone brought up Timewyrm:Exodus. Well, that wasn't a problem. Then came DL. And there's Russell's quote. There was a discussion about the Deca '''dream''' sequence, which apparently showed that the Deca sequences are dreamlike, not literal. Then I was told that i had to show that the epilogue sequence wasn't literal. So, the major continuity errors were shown, as well as the fact that elements from the dream sequence carry over into that epilogue. Then that discussion was locked. Now someone has looped back to the beginning! My original point was the real-world statement that Magnus=The Master. Who else was the Doctor's good friend in Gallifrey who he had a falling out with? But, apparently a dream sequence in a continuity-error-riddled book beats a real world statement. Fine. | |||
The new issue is that on The War Games page it states something to the effect of "Myths:The War Chief is an earlier incarnation of the Master. But novels have disproven this". except they haven't. As shown on the Magnus discussion page, there is '''nothing''' in Timewyrm:Exodus that does that. There is plenty in the Target novelisations(the bits that give background without contradicting) that make them out to be the same. All we have against it is the '''dream sequence''' in DL that has Koschei(a name the Second Doctor had never heard before in The Dark Path) and Magnus together. But does that by itself prove that K'Anpo and Cho Je are two different Time Lords. Does The Two doctors prove that Troughton and C Baker were playing different characters. No. And as noted, the Round 4 Part 3 both contains dream elements carrying over and hopelessly contradicts both established continuity and the DL book itself! Now here's something someone said earlier: | |||
''As far as contradictions in the valid sources goes, don't worry about it. It doesn't matter if the valid sources contradict one another, we just present the information. Just because there's contradictions doesn't mean we discount one source, and a contradiction doesn't mean source or another is invalid. As the [[T:VS|valid sources]] states "The DWU has messy continuity. A story can't be declared invalid just because it contradicts other stories". '' | |||
Now, here's some quotes from those Target Books(which five background without contradicting): | |||
There have been '''two''' stolen, you know.’ The young Time Lord didn’t know. ‘By our enemies?’ he asked. ‘No. By Time Lords. They '''both became bored with this place. It was too peaceful for them, not enough happening.'''’ The old Keeper smiled to himself, as though remembering with some glee all the fuss when '''two''' TARDISes were stolen. ‘One of them nowadays calls himself '''“the Doctor”. '''The other says he is '''“the Master”.''' | |||
The War Chief took the Doctor into his private office just off the war room and told his bodyguards to leave. ‘Now,’ he said, ‘a traveller in a time-space machine. '''There is only one person you can be.’''' ‘I had every right to leave,’ said the Doctor. ‘And to steal a TARDIS?’ The War Chief smiled. ‘Not that I am criticising you. '''I left our people too. We are two of a kind.’ '''‘We most certainly are not!’ the Doctor protested. The War Chief shrugged. ‘Well, we were both Time Lords. Tell me, why did you decide to desert our kin?’ ‘I had reasons of my own. Rather different from yours, I imagine.’ ‘Probably they were. Why don’t you sit down?’ | |||
If ever he were caught, his fate would I be far worse than the Doctor’s exile. Once captured by the Time Lords, the Master’s life-stream would be thrown into reverse. Not only would he no longer exist, he would never have existed. It was the severest punishment in the Time Lords’ power. The Doctor knew that the Master’s presence on earth made matters far worse than he had feared. ‘You’re sure he’s here?’ he asked. The Time Lord nodded gravely. ‘We tracked him on the Monitor. Then there was some kind of alien interference and we lost contact.’ | |||
The Time Lord shook his head. ‘I’m afraid not, Doctor. As a matter of fact, I’ve come to bring you a warning, An old friend of yours has arrived on Earth.’ ‘One of our people? Who is it?’ The Time Lord pronounced a string of mellifluous syllables—one of the strange Time Lord names that are never disclosed to outsiders. Then he added, '''‘These days he calls himself the Master.’ ''' | |||
So, even if it's decided that the War Chief isn't the Master, tat "myth" and "there is evidence stating they aren't" should be removed. After all, one source(especially a dream-sequence in a continuity-error-full book) can not make the other invalid. Perhaps a change to something along the lines that he ''may'' be?[[Special:Contributions/41.133.0.18|41.133.0.18]]<sup>[[User talk:41.133.0.18#top|talk to me]]</sup> 08:29, November 7, 2012 (UTC) | |||
