Talk:Andrea Quill

Rename

Her real name is given in Nightvisiting. Should there be a rename? --90.197.224.187^{talk to me} 11:15, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

If you can tell her real name. --DCLM ☎ 11:38, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Wait, but is the episode already released somewhere in the world? Otherwise it would be a violation of T:SPOIL. It certainly is not yet broadcast in the UK. Amorkuz ☎ 11:47, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

The policy says that any unbroadcast story, and content, cannot be released. But the story has been broadcast on iPlayer. It's not a violation. --DCLM ☎ 11:52, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

That was my question. I just don't call iPlayer availability broadcast. I meant it had not been shown on TV yet, and I always thought they only make things available on iPlayer after the episode airs on TV. Thanks for a clarification. Amorkuz ☎ 11:58, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

I think it said her real name was "Andrath" but I can't really be sure on that. SarahJaneFan ☎ 12:24, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

To Amorkuz: As soon as a story has been released on any available media (unless it's a leak, of course) then per policy we are allowed to create that story on the Wikia. :) --DCLM ☎ 12:36, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

I know that. What I can't know is when it is released on iPlayer because it is restricted to UK people. Amorkuz ☎ 12:39, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

You're not from the UK? But you said: "It certainly is not yet broadcast in the UK." How would you know if you're not from the UK?

I'm not from the UK either, but you can still check on iPlayer whether it's available for view in the UK. And Patrick Ness also placed the series within the 10AM-hour time slot. :) --DCLM ☎ 12:44, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

This is getting personal, so we should take it to our personal pages. Amorkuz ☎ 12:56, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah. Or just leave it. :) --13:02, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Actually, upon reading Example 2 from T:OFF REL carefully, I am forced to disagree with Danniesen and retract my previous agreement. Only the end of the TV broadcast (rounded up) opens up the episode for editing. Availability at the iPlayer is irrelevant. Amorkuz ☎ 14:15, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Curiouser and curiouser. I was trying to find the broadcast time, only to realise there isn't one, not at BBC Three at least as it is purely online. So whether Example 2 mentioned above is applicable here, I'm not sure anymore. As this point is definitely moot for poor Miss Quill, I started a discussion at the Panopticon. Amorkuz ☎ 15:14, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Her sister is called Orla'ath, so it could be possible her name is Andra'ath or something like that rather than just Andrath. We'll have to wait and see I guess. SarahJaneFan ☎ 15:53, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Just in case it might be relevant to her, in The Stone House at some point nightmares of several Coal Hill defenders materialise so that everyone sees them. One mentions Charlie by name. Another accuses some Andrea, saying "I loved you Andrea. I'll never forgive you". Before that Quill says something about Miss Quill Mark 2, which might be a reference to her sister. Quill says that this Miss Quill Mark 2 was not made for war. Could this Andrea be a mishearing of Andrath or Andra'ath by a human ear? Or a short version of Andrath? Amorkuz ☎ 19:19, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Is it possible that Andrea is her human name? I don't really know the context of what happens in the scene you're describing, I own two out of three of the books and unfortunately the one I don't have is The Stone House. Considering April's surname has several different spellings in the books, it's possible that the writer should have written Andrath or Andra'ath but got it wrong and wrote Andrea instead. SarahJaneFan ☎ 19:26, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

If we cannot add the articles on the episodes after they are added on iPlayer, I'd like to know why the articles for the first 3 Class episodes were created soon after being added on iPlayer? --DCLM ☎ 19:30, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Let me please clear up my understanding of the situation. Class first airs on BBC Three. That's online, not technically television. Later on, it also airs on BBC One, but it essentially premieres on iPlayer in the UK.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 19:41, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

And there is a broadcast time. You just have to know where to look. http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/proginfo/2016/44/class: it's 10 AM, and it was the same last week. The page may be created any time after 10:30 (correction: 11:00) British time.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 19:48, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

I should also point out that this would not be a candidate for speedy renaming. A discussion is required as to what to name her, per T:CHAR NAMES which would normally have us going with the name most commonly used. I have not seen the episode yet, as it airs later in Canada.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 19:50, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Andra'ath is surely the name she was most commonly known under on her planet. And I'd say an article without an episode title used as disambiguation should be preferred to one with it. JagoAndLitefoot ☎ 02:13, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

I think even if it is her common form of address on her home planet, that she is most commonly known as 'Miss Quill' in the here and now is relevant. If someone comes to this wiki looking for information about the character, 'Miss Quill', 'Quill' and similar variations will be what they search for. (And we don't even know if that name her 'sister' called her will appear again after this episode, or how frequently.) --MissRatbat ☎ 10:38, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

"Miss Quill" and "Quill" are the most commonly used names in the series. That is what matters. But I think we should create a redirect with her real name leading to this article. --DCLM ☎ 11:34, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Oh, that redirect's long been around. I am not for renaming this page at all. People will search for Quill in the search bar, and an article called Andra'ath will pop up..which they will promptly ignore. From a policy standpoint, regardless of what was used on her home planet, the most commonly used name for this character in a story is Miss Quill. That is, in effect, her name. That is what nearly 100% of the links will be to, not Andra'ath.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 12:03, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

I think it should be simply titled Miss Quill, as that is the name most commonly given to her over Quill and especially Andra'ath.SarahJaneFan ☎ 13:16, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

If we can't use her real name as title, I agree with "Miss Quill". Everything but the horrible current name. Lady Junky 19:27, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

We don't include honourifics in page titles, per T:HONOUR. The current title is the valid equivalent to Miss Quill.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 19:37, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

I think the name should include her first name used on Earth once it's stated. JagoAndLitefoot ☎ 20:20, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Let's hope it's revealed soon, I bet it'll be Andrea so I'll be interested to see if I'm right about that. SarahJaneFan ☎ 22:36, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Is her alias name actually given as Andrea anywhere? Someone spoke of the name Andrea cropping up in The Stone House (novel) but is there confirmation that Quill uses that name? SarahJaneFan ☎ 23:12, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm, for some reason I missed the last couple of messages despite following the page. Sorry for being late for the discussion. Yes, her first "name" is revealed in The Stone House. When she is arrested she has to give her name to the cops and says Andrea Quill. No questions there. It also makes sense: she terraforms her name into a first name and takes the name of her people as the last name. Amorkuz ☎ 23:25, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Now the question is, should the article become "Andrea Quill" or should it stay as it is? 23:28, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

I would say yes – adding the first name should be preferrable to using a dab term. JagoAndLitefoot ☎ 23:40, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

No, it definitely cannot stay as it is. That would be against the rules (IMHO). But there is still a choice: between Andrea Quill and Andra'ath. I just reread T:CHAR NAMES as well as the discussion that led to its current state. And here is what bothers me: while the arguments in the discussion as well as SOTO's reasoning above certainly applies to this situation. Namely, people are most likely to search for "Quill" and can be confused by her real name, which was pronounced only once or twice and whose spelling we are not sure of. But all the examples in that old discussion pertain to changes from maiden to married name. In other words, there was never a case discussed then of an alias to be preferred over a real name. There is, of course a precedent: we have a page for River Song and just a redirect for Melody Pond even though it is the former is her birth name. But River is a bad trend-setting example. Are there more precedents of aliases preferred to real names already? Amorkuz ☎ 23:43, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Other examples I can think of are of Time Lords, but the revealed "true" names have often been of dubious nature and often contradicted across various media. But still, we don't have The Rani at Ushas. 23:47, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

There's Ace, she's one I suppose. I think we should change it to Andrea Quill. SarahJaneFan ☎ 23:49, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

Okay, that does it. I think SarahJaneFan just aced this one. Let me withdraw my objections (at least for now) and vote for Andrea Quill too. Amorkuz ☎ 23:58, October 30, 2016 (UTC)

There's Alice Carter, all the members of the Common Men, even though their true names were also revealed, in very much a similar way... In fact, I don't think I can think of a single instance where a "true" alien name is briefly revealed and never otherwise used, and we actually use it as the page title when there are alternatives.

But hey, I'm all for Andrea Quill if we're absolutely sure that's her human first name. Can we maybe have the quote that proves it?
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 00:03, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Your wish is my command. The quote is from p. 191 of The Stone House:

"One of the officers turns to Miss Quill. `I'm DC Carpenter, this is DC Turner. Can we have your name please?' she says. [...] `My name is Miss Andrea Quill and these young people are here at my request. I'm their teacher and all fault should lie with me.'"

Et voilà. Amorkuz ☎ 00:22, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Last names of other characters

By the way, does any of the novel mention full names of Charlie and Matteusz? We only have their full names from the website for now, but not from a valid source yet. JagoAndLitefoot ☎ 00:02, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Why do you think I'm reading the novels? To enjoy first-class writing and get a quick DW fix? :) So I'm down two novels, one to go. So far no luck on those two characters. I just did a search on "Andr" in the third novel, and found 0 hits. So I wouldn't keep my hopes up for Matteusz, unless the website is wrong. I will let you know if I find something.

PS Sorry for making a subheading for your question, but this discussion is way too long to not be structured, and I am partly to blame. Amorkuz ☎ 00:14, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Spoiler alert: you're not going to find any new last names in the third book. CoT ? 00:22, October 31, 2016 (UTC)

Any discussion about other characters should be taking place on their article talk pages, not on this one. Shambala108 ☎ 02:02, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

Thief category?

I might have missed it. What has she stolen? Amorkuz ☎ 23:08, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

A bus Yeah, it's me "Denchen"... I couldn't believe it either. ☎ 23:19, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

We know she acquired it, but not how, as far as I'm aware.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 23:23, November 13, 2016 (UTC)