Talk:Dalek Progenitor

DNA

In Victory of the Daleks, was it ever stated that the "ironsides" escaped the War in the Medusa Cascade. The daleks in that episode were made from Davros's Kaled DNA, and the original daleks were made from Kaled DNA, so the progenitor would recognise them as pure daleks. They were probably the daleks from Bad Wolf and Parting of the ways who were not pure daleks, but were made fromm human DNA. If they fell back in time, maybe the bad wolf didn't turn them into dust. Icecreamdif 15:52, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

I do not believe that is accurate Icecreamdif. The "ironsides" are almost certainly survivors from the Medusa Cascade force (called the New Dalek Empire).

First, I'm aware the original post to which I am replying here is more than 4 years old. However, in case anyone reads this, it is important to note that in the dialogue, the Eleventh Doctor specifically believes the 3 "ironsides" to be the last surviving members of the New Dalek Empire (the one with Davros, the reality bomb, and the insane Dalek Caan which was defeated during an encounter with the Tenth Doctor). He does not believe they are survivors of the older Parting of the Ways fleet (the one consisting of hybrid-cell Daleks, created by the Dalek Emperor, and destroyed by Rose Tyler during an encounter with the Ninth Doctor).

This is evident from the dialogue, when the Eleventh Doctor says: "When we last met, you were at the end of your rope. Finished." He is specifically referring to the Medusa Cascade Daleks, because those are the last Daleks he saw. The issue is that he expresses this with very vague, general verbiage, and omits proper nouns. One of the Ironsides then says in reply, "One ship survived." In other words, the ironside does not correct The Doctor; it agrees with the general-sounding statement. But both Dalek groups (the older Parting of the Ways fleet, and, the more recent New Dalek Empire) were thought to have been completely destroyed. So, a Dalek who survived either one of those two cataclysms would agree with The Doctor's very general statement. This means, strictly from the dialogue, the ironsides could equally be from the Parting of the Ways fleet as Icecreamdif guessed in his post above (there would be no ambiguity here if the Doctor spoke more specifically... too bad he didn't). But, I will say that The Doctor's assertion overrules any ambiguity. Moreover, I disagree that the Daleks of the New Empire, who were created from Davros' cells, would be recognized by the Progenitor "as pure daleks". Yes, Davros was a Kaled, and yes, the Daleks originated from Kaleds... but how much can the DNA of a humanoid Kaled resemble the DNA of the mutated blobs we see inside the Dalek casings? Not much. The Daleks are mutant Kaleds from our point of view, but from the Daleks' perspective, they are "pure". Who knows how much refinement they engineered in their DNA before the Time War? Humans, Kaleds, and everything else, are impure. This includes the Daleks of the New Empire, which were mutants created directly from the body tissue of Davros himself. They didn't have the insane self-hate which the human-hybrid-cell Daleks of the older Parting of the Ways fleet had, but, they lost the genetic engineering of the original Daleks. Blue Rook ☎ 01:22, November 13, 2014 (UTC)

ordering

i was under the impression that they fell back in time and then found the progenitor, not the other way roundLord Aro 21:15, May 8, 2010 (UTC)