Talk:Sutcliffe (Thin Ice)

Official Annual

The "Behind the scenes" section states the following:

According to the Doctor Who The Official Annual 2018, which is not accepted as a valid source for in-universe articles on this wiki, Sutcliffe's full name and title was "Lord Peregrine Sutcliffe".

Please could somebody clarify if this is accurate. Perry became Lord Peregrine Sutcliffe at the end of the episode. I don't have the annual, but could somebody confirm whether this statement relates to Perry, or if it is correct in that it relates to the unnamed Lord Sutcliffe? Thanks in advance. 66 Seconds ☎ 08:53, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Okay, the source in question is Rooms to Rent!, which wasn't cited, because apparently it's too hard to do so if it's invalid.

Also, the statement "which is not accepted as a valid source for writing in-universe articles on this wiki" is bollocks as the annual isn't a single source, nor does in-universe make sense as invalid stuff is still in-universe. We would never say "according to Short Trips and Side Steps, which is not accepted as a valid source for writing in-universe articles on this Wiki, Dr. Who visited Oldark Moor." thus this type of statement needs to be expunged from the Wiki.

The character is definitely Lord Sutcliffe, not Perry. The specific section is an advertisement from Lord Peregrine Sutcliffe about rooms for rent in his family home.

Epsilon📯 📂

14:50, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

But as far as people are aware, it is Perry's family home. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 15:28, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

As Jack says above, this becomes Perry's family home at the end of the episode. Are we 100% sure this relates to the original Lord Sutcliffe, rather than the later Lord Peregrine Sutcliffe. Please could somebody quote the statement exactly, or possibly post a picture, for those of us who don't have the annual.66 Seconds ☎ 15:09, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Based on his character alone, I doubt that the original Lord Sutcliffe would be the sort of person to offer out rooms to rent. It seems more likely to be Perry, thought I'm happy to be proven wrong. 66 Seconds ☎ 15:13, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Also, the statement at the bottom of the page: "To apply, individuals had to go to Kitty, Sutcliffe's private secretary", suggests that the name relates to Perry, as Kitty was one of his friends who he later made an heir. 66 Seconds ☎ 15:25, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

It seems perfectly clear to me that this refers to Perry. A picture might be helpful to confirm, but I honestly see no reason to doubt this interpretation.
×   SOTO contribs ×°/↯/•]   💬•| {/-//:   15:45, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

If we're in agreement, I'm going to move this back to Sutcliffe (Thin Ice). Peregrine Sutcliffe can be used as a redirect for Perry (Thin Ice). – The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66 Seconds (talk • contribs) .

Hold on! You could've left it a day or so to give people the opportunity to pitch in.

Okay, so the relevant section for those without the annual

ROOMS AVAILABLE IN
ARISTOCRATIC RESIDENCE
----
Family home of Lord Sutcliffe,
now affordable housing for the community.
Priority will be given to orphans and other urchins.
Great views of the Thames and exquisitely decorated.
Free grub three times a day — help yourself!
----
Rent: Nominal
Apply to Kitty,
Lord Peregrine Sutcliffe's private secretary
TOFFS NEED NOT APPLY

Rooms to Rent! ^[+]Loading...["Rooms to Rent! (feature)"]

Now, this is framed as an advert in the annual, with a photograph of the Lord next other it, as if they have been glued in a scrapbook.

Is it being interpretated that, after Sutcliffe's drowning, Perry pretends to be his son or something and pretends to be a Sutcliffe, in order to give legitimacy to his newfound ownership of Sutcliffe's home?

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

17:58, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

This quote makes no sense coming from Lord Sutcliffe, who a) wouldn't have hired Kitty as a secretary, b) would have let toffs apply, c) wouldn't have called them toffs, d) wouldn't have let orphans or urchins anywhere near his family home, and e) wouldn't have rented out his family home in the first place.

We can further apply the context of Perry being the name of the orphan whom Doctor Who fudged the paperwork to give the mansion to, claiming that Perry's name was "Lord Peregrine Sutcliffe" in the episode, and so it stands to reason that Perry would operate under the posher-sounding name if putting something in the paper. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 18:08, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Agree 100%. Jack "BtR" Saxon ☎ 18:12, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

When I first read the feature I didn't think Sutcliffe was actually renting out his home, but of the children doing so instead; I just thought they were sling it under Sutcliffe's name. Does this still stand? I dunno.

EPSILON^🔎 |📯|📂|📦|📝

18:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

So as I was reading all this, it occurred to me that the name "Peregrine Sutcliffe" actually appears at the end of the episode!

I checked, and it's at 40:04, when the Doctor forges his name in. Peregrine Sutcliffe. I knew that sounded familiar. (Can't screenshot from my iTunes copy, unfortunately, but it's there.)
×   SOTO contribs ×°/↯/•]   💬•| {/-//:   18:42, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

I did mention that in my reply. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 21:19, 22 December 2023 (UTC)