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The Power of Three dating controversy: Difference between revisions

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(Still no excuses for the "could be" waffle and natter. Occam's razor says that it's 2013, at BEST 2012, and Hungry Earth does not uncontroversially insinuate an Amy's Choice-esque return home.)
Tags: Reverted 2017 source edit
 
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{{retitle|''The Power of Three'' dating controversy}}
{{retitle|''The Power of Three'' dating controversy}}
{{real world}}
{{real world}}
'''''The Power of Three'' dating controversy''' stems from a narrative confusion beginning in [[series 7 (Doctor Who)|series seven]] of ''[[Doctor Who]]'', noticeable particularly with the [[2012 (releases)|2012]] television story ''[[The Power of Three (TV story)|The Power of Three]]'' by [[Chris Chibnall]]. Unlike his predecessor [[Russell T Davies]], as [[head writer]], [[Steven Moffat]] was vaguer on what was considered "present day", particularly after [[series 6 (Doctor Who)|series six]].
'''''The Power of Three'' dating controversy''' stems from a narrative confusion beginning in [[series 7 (Doctor Who 2005)|series seven]] of ''[[Doctor Who]]'', noticeable particularly with the [[2012 (releases)|2012]] television story ''[[The Power of Three (TV story)|The Power of Three]]'' by [[Chris Chibnall]]. Unlike his predecessor [[Russell T Davies]], as [[head writer]], [[Steven Moffat]] was vaguer on what was considered "present day", particularly after [[series 6 (Doctor Who 2005)|series six]].


In the [[DWM 447|October 2014 issue]] of ''[[Doctor Who Magazine]]'', reader Mike Bond submitted a question to Moffat about this discrepency: specifically, how [[Kate Stewart]] could meet the [[Eleventh Doctor]] and [[Clara Oswald|Clara]] in ''[[The Day of the Doctor (TV story)|The Day of the Doctor]]'' in [[2013]] if she had first met the Doctor in ''[[The Power of Three (TV story)|The Power of Three]]'', which could be deduced to be set in [[July]] [[2016]]. Moffat replied,
In the [[DWM 447|October 2014 issue]] of ''[[Doctor Who Magazine]]'', reader Mike Bond submitted a question to Moffat about this discrepency: specifically, how [[Kate Stewart]] could meet the [[Eleventh Doctor]] and [[Clara Oswald|Clara]] in ''[[The Day of the Doctor (TV story)|The Day of the Doctor]]'' in [[2013]] if she had first met the Doctor in ''[[The Power of Three (TV story)|The Power of Three]]'', which could be deduced to be set in [[July]] [[2016]]. Moffat replied,
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==== Television ====
==== Television ====
[[File:Amy Pond age.jpg|thumb|Computer screens giving Amy Pond's age as 1308. ([[TV]]: ''[[The Beast Below (TV story)|The Beast Below]]'')]]
[[File:Amy Pond age.jpg|thumb|Computer screens giving Amy Pond's age as 1308. ([[TV]]: ''[[The Beast Below (TV story)|The Beast Below]]'')]]
In [[series 5 (Doctor Who)|series five]] and [[series 6 (Doctor Who)|series six]], present day episodes are consistently presented as being set in the year in which they were aired:
In [[series 5 (Doctor Who 2005)|series five]] and [[series 6 (Doctor Who 2005)|series six]], present day episodes are consistently presented as being set in the year in which they were aired:
* In ''[[The Eleventh Hour (TV story)|The Eleventh Hour]]'' (2010), 21-year-old [[Amy Pond]] joins the [[Eleventh Doctor]] in the TARDIS after waiting for him for fourteen years. Later references would have her leaving in [[2010]], which would put her meeting as a 7-year-old in [[1996]], and the [[Atraxi]] incident in [[2008]]. However, despite [[Rory Williams]] being consistently presented as Amy's age, in an apparent prop mistake his identification badge for the [[Royal Leadworth Hospital]] was issued on [[30 November]] [[1990]].
* In ''[[The Eleventh Hour (TV story)|The Eleventh Hour]]'' (2010), 21-year-old [[Amy Pond]] joins the [[Eleventh Doctor]] in the TARDIS after waiting for him for fourteen years. Later references would have her leaving in [[2010]], which would put her meeting as a 7-year-old in [[1996]], and the [[Atraxi]] incident in [[2008]]. However, despite [[Rory Williams]] being consistently presented as Amy's age, in an apparent prop mistake his identification badge for the [[Royal Leadworth Hospital]] was issued on [[30 November]] [[1990]].
* In ''[[The Beast Below (TV story)|The Beast Below]]'' (2010), Amy's age is spoken aloud by a [[Starship UK]] [[computer]] as being 1306 in [[3295]]. On-screen, however, her age is given as being [[1308 (number)|1308]], placing her year of birth as [[1987]], and would have made her 9-years-old in [[1996]].
* In ''[[The Beast Below (TV story)|The Beast Below]]'' (2010), Amy's age is spoken aloud by a [[Starship UK]] [[computer]] as being 1306 in [[3295]]. On-screen, however, her age is given as being [[1308 (number)|1308]], placing her year of birth as [[1987]], and would have made her 9-years-old in [[1996]].
* In ''[[Flesh and Stone (TV story)|Flesh and Stone]]'' (2010), the Doctor refers to [[26 June]] [[2010]] as "Amy's time".
* In ''[[Flesh and Stone (TV story)|Flesh and Stone]]'' (2010), the Doctor refers to [[26 June]] [[2010]] as "Amy's time".
* In ''[[The Vampires of Venice (TV story)|The Vampires of Venice]]'' (2010), Rory claims that he will marry Amy "four-hundred-and-thirty years" after [[1580]], placing the year of their wedding in [[2010]].
* In ''[[The Vampires of Venice (TV story)|The Vampires of Venice]]'' (2010), Rory claims that he will marry Amy "four-hundred-and-thirty years" after [[1580]], placing the year of their wedding in [[2010]].
* In ''[[The Hungry Earth (TV story)|The Hungry Earth]]'' (2010), Amy and Rory see their future selves waving at them during a trip to [[2020]], although the following episode, ''[[Cold Blood (TV story)|Cold Blood]]'' (2010), establishes that their future can still be changed.
* In ''[[The Pandorica Opens (TV story)|The Pandorica Opens]]'' (2010), the Doctor's TARDIS explodes on [[26 June]] [[2010]].
* In ''[[The Pandorica Opens (TV story)|The Pandorica Opens]]'' (2010), the Doctor's TARDIS explodes on [[26 June]] [[2010]].
* In ''[[The Big Bang (TV story)|The Big Bang]]'' (2010), Amy directly states that she met the Doctor at age 7 in the year 1996. Finally, after rebooting reality together, Amy and Rory marry on [[26 June]] [[2010]] and then leave with the Doctor for their [[honeymoon]].
* In ''[[The Big Bang (TV story)|The Big Bang]]'' (2010), Amy directly states that she met the Doctor at age 7 in the year 1996. Finally, after rebooting reality together, Amy and Rory marry on [[26 June]] [[2010]] and then leave with the Doctor for their [[honeymoon]].
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* In ''[[Let's Kill Hitler (TV story)|Let's Kill Hitler]]'' (broadcast 27 August 2011), the Doctor returns to Amy and Rory after having been away "all summer" looking for [[Melody Pond]].
* In ''[[Let's Kill Hitler (TV story)|Let's Kill Hitler]]'' (broadcast 27 August 2011), the Doctor returns to Amy and Rory after having been away "all summer" looking for [[Melody Pond]].
* In ''[[The God Complex (TV story)|The God Complex]]'' (2011), the Doctor leaves Amy and Rory on contemporary Earth. In the next episode, ''[[Closing Time (TV story)|Closing Time]]'' (2011), the Doctor sees Amy and Rory, apparently after he had left them on Earth, while at a shopping centre on [[19 April]] [[2011]].<ref>A newspaper the Doctor was reading displays that as the date.</ref> How much time has passed for them, and therefore when exactly the Doctor dropped them off, is unclear.
* In ''[[The God Complex (TV story)|The God Complex]]'' (2011), the Doctor leaves Amy and Rory on contemporary Earth. In the next episode, ''[[Closing Time (TV story)|Closing Time]]'' (2011), the Doctor sees Amy and Rory, apparently after he had left them on Earth, while at a shopping centre on [[19 April]] [[2011]].<ref>A newspaper the Doctor was reading displays that as the date.</ref> How much time has passed for them, and therefore when exactly the Doctor dropped them off, is unclear.
**One possibility is Amy and Rory lived through most of 2011 twice. However, Amy has become a famous [[model]] for the perfume [[Petrichor (perfume)|Petrichor]], leaving it difficult to believe two Amys could be living in the same year without being noticed.


Beginning with [[series 7 (Doctor Who)|series seven]], long gaps mentioned in the TV stories pushed its events further and further into the future.
Beginning with [[series 7 (Doctor Who 2005)|series seven]], long gaps mentioned in the TV stories pushed its events further and further into the future.
* In ''[[The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe (TV story)|The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe]]'' (2011), the Doctor visits Amy and Rory for Christmas. Amy claims that it has been two years since they last saw the Doctor in ''The God Complex''. The literal interpretation, reflected by Mike Bond's question in [[DWM 447]], places this scene in 2013.
* In ''[[The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe (TV story)|The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe]]'' (2011), the Doctor visits Amy and Rory for Christmas. Amy claims that it has been two years since they last saw the Doctor in ''The God Complex''. Depending on how the prior stories are interpreted, this comment could have several meanings:
* In ''[[Pond Life (TV story)|Pond Life]]'' (released August 2012), the Doctor remains in contact with Amy and Rory throughout [[April]], [[May]], [[June]], and [[July]] of the year following ''The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe''. That [[August]], Amy and Rory almost divorce after an argument, but the Doctor helps reunite them in ''[[Asylum of the Daleks (TV story)|Asylum of the Daleks]]'' (2012).
** If ''Closing Time'' is taken to indicate that the Doctor left them in early 2011, and if Amy is assumed to be rounding up, ''The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe'' might be set in December [[2012]]. This reading is used to construct dates for the remainder of this article.
* During ''[[Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (TV story)|Dinosaurs on a Spaceship]]'' (2012), Amy mentions that she hasn't seen the Doctor for 10 months, placing it the June after the June after ''The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe''.
** Alternately, if Amy's comment is taken totally literally, the story could be set in December 2013. This interpretation seems to be what Mike Bond followed with his question in [[DWM 447]].
* In ''[[The Power of Three (TV story)|The Power of Three]]'' (2012), the [[Shakri cube]]s arrive in [[July]] and remain dormant for a whole year. Thus, as per the discrepancy raised by Mike Bond, ''The Power of Three'' has to end in July 2016. [[Kate Stewart]] meets the Doctor for the first time during this year, identifying him only by his [[binary vascular system]] rather than his face, and she is surprised when he knows her father is [[Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart]]. However, in ''[[The Day of the Doctor (TV story)|The Day of the Doctor]]'' (2013), which is set in [[2013]], Kate is already familiar with the Doctor.
** If much more time is assumed to have passed for Amy and Rory by ''Closing Time'' – for instance, if the Doctor left Amy and Rory as early as mid-2010 – it could be December 2011.
* In ''[[Pond Life (TV story)|Pond Life]]'' (released August 2012), the Doctor remains in contact with Amy and Rory throughout [[April]], [[May]], [[June]], and [[July]] of the year following ''The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe''. Following the first interpretation of that story's dating described above, this would be the year [[2013]]. That [[August]], Amy and Rory almost divorce after an argument, but the Doctor helps reunite them in ''[[Asylum of the Daleks (TV story)|Asylum of the Daleks]]'' (2012).
* During ''[[Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (TV story)|Dinosaurs on a Spaceship]]'' (2012), Amy mentions that she hasn't seen the Doctor for 10 months. If ''Asylum of the Daleks'' is set at its earliest possible date, in August 2013, this would place ''Dinosaurs'' in [[June]] [[2014]].
* However, also in ''Dinosaurs'', Rory mentions to his father that he is 31 years old. If one believes Rory being born in [[1989]], as mentioned in such sources as [[COMIC]]: ''[[The Broken Man (comic story)|The Broken Man]]'', then this would set this story in circa [[2020]]. If the story was set contemporary to broadcast, Rory should have been 22 or 23. Given that [[Arthur Darvill]] would have been 29 while filming the episode, it's likely that [[Chris Chibnall]] briefly forgot that Rory was younger than Darvill - thus he simply added two years to Darvill's age to imply it being set slightly into the future.
** Given later information would confirm that Amy and Rory have aged while traveling in the TARDIS while their lives at home stay still, one could interpret that Rory was 31 without the story being 31 years from his birth. However, this seems to contradict it being a statement he makes to his father.
* In ''[[The Power of Three (TV story)|The Power of Three]]'' (2012), the [[Shakri cube]]s arrive in [[July]] and remain dormant for a whole year. Based on the idea that ''Dinosaurs'' takes place in 2014, [[the Year of the Slow Invasion]] would start in [[2014]] and end in [[2015]]. Based on the idea that the story takes place in 2020, the in-universe "pandemic" would instead take place in 2020 and 2021. [[Kate Stewart]] meets the Doctor for the first time during this year, identifying him only by his [[binary vascular system]] rather than his face, and she is surprised when he knows her father is [[Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart]]. However, in ''[[The Day of the Doctor (TV story)|The Day of the Doctor]]'' (2013), which is set in [[2013]], Kate is already familiar with the Doctor.
* In ''The Power of Three'', Amy tells the Doctor "We think it's been ten years. Not for you or Earth, but for us. Ten years older. Ten years of you, on and off." This implies that while Amy and Rory have aged ten years since meeting the Doctor, the Doctor has not had ten years of adventures with them and the "current year" is less than ten years from when Amy first left in the TARDIS.
* In ''The Power of Three'', Amy tells the Doctor "We think it's been ten years. Not for you or Earth, but for us. Ten years older. Ten years of you, on and off." This implies that while Amy and Rory have aged ten years since meeting the Doctor, the Doctor has not had ten years of adventures with them and the "current year" is less than ten years from when Amy first left in the TARDIS.


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=== Clara ===
=== Clara ===
==== Television ====
==== Television ====
Beginning with the second half of [[series 7 (Doctor Who)|series seven]], the show returned to the present day:  
Beginning with the second half of [[series 7 (Doctor Who 2005)|series seven]], the show returned to the present day:  
* In ''[[The Bells of Saint John (TV story)|The Bells of Saint John]]'' (2013), [[Clara Oswald]] joins the Doctor while working as a nanny. In ''[[Deep Breath (TV story)|Deep Breath]]'' (2014) [[Strax]] states that Clara is 27-years-old during a medical examination, which, as her date of birth is given as [[23 November]] [[1986]] in ''Death in Heaven'' (2014), would set her travels with the Doctor starting in [[2013]], and ''[[The Time of the Doctor (TV story)|The Time of the Doctor]]'' (2013) as happening during [[Christmas]] 2013.
* In ''[[The Bells of Saint John (TV story)|The Bells of Saint John]]'' (2013), [[Clara Oswald]] joins the Doctor while working as a nanny. In ''[[Deep Breath (TV story)|Deep Breath]]'' (2014) [[Strax]] states that Clara is 27-years-old during a medical examination, which, as her date of birth is given as [[23 November]] [[1986]] in ''Death in Heaven'' (2014), would set her travels with the Doctor starting in [[2013]], and ''[[The Time of the Doctor (TV story)|The Time of the Doctor]]'' (2013) as happening during [[Christmas]] 2013.
* In ''[[The Name of the Doctor (TV story)|The Name of the Doctor]]'' (broadcast 18 May 2013), Clara receives a letter from Madame [[Vastra]], who calculated the date of the letter's arrival to be [[10 April]] [[2013]].
* In ''[[The Name of the Doctor (TV story)|The Name of the Doctor]]'' (broadcast 18 May 2013), Clara receives a letter from Madame [[Vastra]], who calculated the date of the letter's arrival to be [[10 April]] [[2013]].

Latest revision as of 20:06, 25 April 2024

RealWorld.png

The Power of Three dating controversy stems from a narrative confusion beginning in series seven of Doctor Who, noticeable particularly with the 2012 television story The Power of Three by Chris Chibnall. Unlike his predecessor Russell T Davies, as head writer, Steven Moffat was vaguer on what was considered "present day", particularly after series six.

In the October 2014 issue of Doctor Who Magazine, reader Mike Bond submitted a question to Moffat about this discrepency: specifically, how Kate Stewart could meet the Eleventh Doctor and Clara in The Day of the Doctor in 2013 if she had first met the Doctor in The Power of Three, which could be deduced to be set in July 2016. Moffat replied,

"Ah, yes, well, good point. Some may think that question has no good answer. But as I believe I mentioned earlier, I'm on fire this month and can answer ANYTHING, oh yes. Sadly, however, I've run out of space..."Steven Moffat [src]

Dating information[[edit] | [edit source]]

Amy and Rory[[edit] | [edit source]]

Television[[edit] | [edit source]]

 
Computer screens giving Amy Pond's age as 1308. (TV: The Beast Below)

In series five and series six, present day episodes are consistently presented as being set in the year in which they were aired:

  • In The Eleventh Hour (2010), 21-year-old Amy Pond joins the Eleventh Doctor in the TARDIS after waiting for him for fourteen years. Later references would have her leaving in 2010, which would put her meeting as a 7-year-old in 1996, and the Atraxi incident in 2008. However, despite Rory Williams being consistently presented as Amy's age, in an apparent prop mistake his identification badge for the Royal Leadworth Hospital was issued on 30 November 1990.
  • In The Beast Below (2010), Amy's age is spoken aloud by a Starship UK computer as being 1306 in 3295. On-screen, however, her age is given as being 1308, placing her year of birth as 1987, and would have made her 9-years-old in 1996.
  • In Flesh and Stone (2010), the Doctor refers to 26 June 2010 as "Amy's time".
  • In The Vampires of Venice (2010), Rory claims that he will marry Amy "four-hundred-and-thirty years" after 1580, placing the year of their wedding in 2010.
  • In The Hungry Earth (2010), Amy and Rory see their future selves waving at them during a trip to 2020, although the following episode, Cold Blood (2010), establishes that their future can still be changed.
  • In The Pandorica Opens (2010), the Doctor's TARDIS explodes on 26 June 2010.
  • In The Big Bang (2010), Amy directly states that she met the Doctor at age 7 in the year 1996. Finally, after rebooting reality together, Amy and Rory marry on 26 June 2010 and then leave with the Doctor for their honeymoon.
  • In The Impossible Astronaut (broadcast 23 April 2011), Amy and Rory are invited to Lake Silencio, where they witness the Doctor's apparent assassination. Later references date the assassination to 5:02 PM on 22 April 2011.
  • In Let's Kill Hitler (broadcast 27 August 2011), the Doctor returns to Amy and Rory after having been away "all summer" looking for Melody Pond.
  • In The God Complex (2011), the Doctor leaves Amy and Rory on contemporary Earth. In the next episode, Closing Time (2011), the Doctor sees Amy and Rory, apparently after he had left them on Earth, while at a shopping centre on 19 April 2011.[1] How much time has passed for them, and therefore when exactly the Doctor dropped them off, is unclear.
    • One possibility is Amy and Rory lived through most of 2011 twice. However, Amy has become a famous model for the perfume Petrichor, leaving it difficult to believe two Amys could be living in the same year without being noticed.

Beginning with series seven, long gaps mentioned in the TV stories pushed its events further and further into the future.

  • In The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe (2011), the Doctor visits Amy and Rory for Christmas. Amy claims that it has been two years since they last saw the Doctor in The God Complex. Depending on how the prior stories are interpreted, this comment could have several meanings:
    • If Closing Time is taken to indicate that the Doctor left them in early 2011, and if Amy is assumed to be rounding up, The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe might be set in December 2012. This reading is used to construct dates for the remainder of this article.
    • Alternately, if Amy's comment is taken totally literally, the story could be set in December 2013. This interpretation seems to be what Mike Bond followed with his question in DWM 447.
    • If much more time is assumed to have passed for Amy and Rory by Closing Time – for instance, if the Doctor left Amy and Rory as early as mid-2010 – it could be December 2011.
  • In Pond Life (released August 2012), the Doctor remains in contact with Amy and Rory throughout April, May, June, and July of the year following The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe. Following the first interpretation of that story's dating described above, this would be the year 2013. That August, Amy and Rory almost divorce after an argument, but the Doctor helps reunite them in Asylum of the Daleks (2012).
  • During Dinosaurs on a Spaceship (2012), Amy mentions that she hasn't seen the Doctor for 10 months. If Asylum of the Daleks is set at its earliest possible date, in August 2013, this would place Dinosaurs in June 2014.
  • However, also in Dinosaurs, Rory mentions to his father that he is 31 years old. If one believes Rory being born in 1989, as mentioned in such sources as COMIC: The Broken Man, then this would set this story in circa 2020. If the story was set contemporary to broadcast, Rory should have been 22 or 23. Given that Arthur Darvill would have been 29 while filming the episode, it's likely that Chris Chibnall briefly forgot that Rory was younger than Darvill - thus he simply added two years to Darvill's age to imply it being set slightly into the future.
    • Given later information would confirm that Amy and Rory have aged while traveling in the TARDIS while their lives at home stay still, one could interpret that Rory was 31 without the story being 31 years from his birth. However, this seems to contradict it being a statement he makes to his father.
  • In The Power of Three (2012), the Shakri cubes arrive in July and remain dormant for a whole year. Based on the idea that Dinosaurs takes place in 2014, the Year of the Slow Invasion would start in 2014 and end in 2015. Based on the idea that the story takes place in 2020, the in-universe "pandemic" would instead take place in 2020 and 2021. Kate Stewart meets the Doctor for the first time during this year, identifying him only by his binary vascular system rather than his face, and she is surprised when he knows her father is Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart. However, in The Day of the Doctor (2013), which is set in 2013, Kate is already familiar with the Doctor.
  • In The Power of Three, Amy tells the Doctor "We think it's been ten years. Not for you or Earth, but for us. Ten years older. Ten years of you, on and off." This implies that while Amy and Rory have aged ten years since meeting the Doctor, the Doctor has not had ten years of adventures with them and the "current year" is less than ten years from when Amy first left in the TARDIS.

Prose[[edit] | [edit source]]

Clara[[edit] | [edit source]]

Television[[edit] | [edit source]]

Beginning with the second half of series seven, the show returned to the present day:

Comics[[edit] | [edit source]]

  • The Fractures (2015), which takes place between The Caretaker and Dark Water, gives the year as 2014.
  • The Hyperion Empire (2015), which takes place between Last Christmas and The Magician's Apprentice, gives the date as summer 2015.
  • Clara Oswald and the School of Death (2016), which takes place between The Witch's Familiar and Face the Raven, gives the date as September 2015.
  • Witch Hunt (2016), which takes place after Danny's death in Death in Heaven, gives the date as October of an unspecified year, with Clara being alive to see the opening of the new IT suite in Danny’s memory, a few months later.

Prose[[edit] | [edit source]]

Footnotes[[edit] | [edit source]]

  1. A newspaper the Doctor was reading displays that as the date.
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