User talk:Amorkuz/Archive 1

	This page is an archive. Please do not make any edits here. Edit the active conversation only.

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• Amorkuz •

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Welcome

Howdy :) Somehow you've managed to miss our automatic greeting, which I've now forced manually on to this page. We're really glad you're here! However, because you flummoxed our system, you probably weren't able to peruse our local rules. One of the biggest has to do with our rules of image use. Please take a minute to flip through that, as well as our guide to images.

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czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  20:50: Tue 13 May 2014

Timeline information

Hi! I want to explain why I had to undo some of your edits. A while ago, we decided to get rid of timeline sections on pages (Forum:Timeline sections on pages). That includes things like "this story has to take place after Such and Such" when it's not really notable or relevant to the article. I hope that makes sense. Thanks! P&P talk contribs 01:45, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

Dear P&P, Thank you for noticing my efforts. Could you please direct me to the discussion in the forum, based on which you had to undo my edits? I would like to familiarize myself with the definition of "notable or relevant," and, perhaps, reopen the discussion. You see, I've started adding this information based on my own experience: when I choose which story to listen to next, I need this information. So it is good if I can find it in the intro, without the need to scroll down to the Continuity section risking to see some spoilers on the way. Here is an example of what I wanted to know: I wanted to listen to companion chronicles in timeline-chronological order rather than the order of release. Hence, I needed to figure out which stories happened before the TV timeline even began. Granted, there is a navigation box at the bottom listing Susan-only companion Chronicles. So I started listening to one of them, Quinnis. But I couldn't make heads or tails of what Susan talks about in the beginning (e.g., Alex who met his great-grandfather) because she mentions the events of An Earthly Child, a story from another Big Finish range. I had to stop listening and do some not-spoiler-free digging around. It is to prevent such situations that I've started adding the timeline information to the intros.

Now, I agree that in many cases this information is superfluous as in can be inferred from the companion set. But let me give you one example of my edit that you have removed but I would still want it to be restored because I consider this "notable and relevant" case. In Domain of the Voord, one of the enemy leaders, Nebrin mentions Marinus virtually in every conversation. I would even go as far as to say that Domain of the Voord can be viewed as a sequel to The Keys of Marinus. I am prepared to argue this point publicly, but this should be done in that old discussion of timelines, I think. There are other less obvious connections that are relevant to the plots of some (but not all) of the edits I'd added and you've removed. Perhaps, I would be able to persuade the community regarding some of them that their presence in the Intro part is beneficial for those who do not want to watch all of the classic Doctor Who.Amorkuz ☎ 08:16, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

Hey. First, you should leave your responses on the other person's talk page instead of yours. That way, they'll get a notification that you've responded.

The original decision to get rid of timeline sections was made at Forum:Timeline sections on pages. Read the closing for the salient points. That discussion has been archived, so if you want to bring it up again, you'd have to start a new thread at Board:The Panopticon. You also might want to read Tardis:Changing policy and Tardis:Who writes policy for some background on how this wiki changes policies.

Personally, I think getting rid of timeline information was a good move. It's just not really necessary to say "The Doctor's Tale is set after An Unearthly Child", and more specific placements would require speculation. The fact that an Ian and Barbara story mentions The Crusades so it has to take place after that story is too minor to be put in the lead, and really belongs in the "continuity" section. The exception would be, as you stated, when a story is a direct sequel to another (like Domain of the Voord) which is definitely noteworthy. That should be remarked on in the lead. I think the pages for Blood Harvest and The Butcher of Brisbane do this pretty well. P&P talk contribs 14:42, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

For the vast majority of Companion Chronicles, and probably most Who stories, the placement isn't lead-worthy. The lead should be about why that story is unique or important. If placement information is included, the article should explain why that's relevant. Let's take, for example, The Doctor's Tale. Rather than say "this story takes place after The Crusade", it's more interesting to the reader to say "Ian's knighthood in The Crusade played a key role in the plot of this story." Or for Domain of the Voord, "this story saw the First Doctor and his companions once more facing the Voord, who they had previously encountered in The Keys of Marinus" is better than "this story takes place after The Keys of Marinus."

To me, the only situations where timeline placement is "certain enough and noteworthy enough" is when either the a story leads directly on from the previous one (like Time Crash following on from the ending of Last of the Time Lords) or there is out-of-universe information (the inside cover of The Hyperion Empire says it is between Last Christmas and Series 9). That's just my opinion, however, and noteworthiness is subjective. I don't think there can be a one-size-fits-all rule for this.

One last thing: leads don't have to be spoiler free, and in many cases they shouldn't be. If the lead of Earthshock failed to mention the appearance of the Cybermen at the end of part one or Adric's death at the end of part four, it would be fundamentally incomplete. P&P talk contribs 19:12, October 24, 2015 (UTC)

Please do not add timeline placement of stories in articles. User:PicassoAndPringles clearly stated why in her post and even gave you, at your request, a link to the forum decision. She gave clear examples of when and how to include this kind of information. If you would like to place stories in the "proper" timeline, you can only do so at Theory:Timey-wimey detector. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎ 02:59, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand what my dissension on the original discussion has to do with this, unless you're inferring that disagreement with a policy allows one to break it (see Tardis:You are bound by current policy). Once a policy is in place, everyone must follow it, whether they agreed on it or not and whether they even participated in the discussion or not.

And actually, "noteworthy" is not that hard to define. Merely listing where a story falls in relation to other stories is not only not noteworthy, but some of these listings leave out other media (please see Tardis:Neutral point of view), and often they are extremely speculative. We don't allow speculation on the wiki.

Noteworthy timeline info can go in the "Notes" or "Continuity" sections of story pages. I suggest you browse a few story pages in different media to see how it's handled. But sourced placement of stories should absolutely not belong on the page at all, much less the lead. Sure, Big Finish says where their stories take place relative to the TV series, but this wiki covers all media.

As I posted above, you can take this material to the Theory:Timey-wimey detector, which was put in place to house timeline placement information so that those who are interested in this kind of information can have a place to work out placement. But mere placement should not go on a story page unless the story has relevance to another story — such as a sequel, prequel, flashback, etc.

I hope that P&P and I have made the matter clear enough for you. There are some areas of the wiki where it just takes time to understand the nuances of a rule, and this happens to be one of them. Shambala108 ☎ 02:28, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

Category:Post-2005 Doctor Who cast reprising their roles at Big Finish

There doesn't seem to be a category for Pre-2005 Doctor Who cast reprising their roles at Big Finish (I checked Sylvester McCoy's page, no such category there), so I'm not sure your category should even exist. How can we have this without also having a similar one for classic era cast reprisals?  Digifiend  Talk  PR/SS  KR  MH  Toku  JD  Garo  TH  CG  UM  Logos  CLG  DW  00:33, 8/11/2015 

Images

Hi! Please note that all images uploaded to the wiki must be less than 100kb. You can read our image policies at Thread:148148. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎ 00:35, November 11, 2015 (UTC)

I see you're having problems compressing even small, 450px wide images to <100kb. I'd love to help you out. If you have image editing software, please let me know the name and I can help provide instructions. If you don't, then you should be able to accomplish the task easily with http://tinypng.com. (Although the site stresses its ability to shrink pngs, it also handles jpgs quite well.) If you have any questions about how to technically achieve the compression, please don't hesitate to ask!
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  02:45: Thu 12 Nov 2015

Exact release dates

There's no policy about listing the exact date. Some stories are listed as being released on the last day of the month because that's the date listed in DWM, but it's almost always wrong. The only way to know the exact date is to find the news item on the Big Finish website, which is only available from 2011 onwards, and it can be hard to track down the specific post for older items. For consistency, I usually leave the exact date off. P&P talk contribs 16:10, November 21, 2015 (UTC)

Moving pages

Hello again. We actually ask that non-admins don't move pages themselves. All that is required before the switch is made is that any links be altered to reflect the move. I can do it myself, if you tell me your intention, or you can do it and I'll just rename it when you're done. It's up to you. Anyway, keep up the good work.--Skittles the hog - talk 18:55, December 12, 2015 (UTC)

Note: if it's an indisputable case that does not need discussion, you can (and should) use {{speedy rename}} on the article. This puts the article on T:SPEEDY, where any admin can rename it if there are no outstanding links to the old name, or any admin with a bot (such as myself) can move those links and then the page. If there are more than 10 wikilinks to the outdated title, or less even, don't bother doing the links, and just mark links as no on the template—I can change all the links by bot quite easily before moving the page.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 09:39, December 20, 2015 (UTC)

Public domain images

Hey. I deleted the public domain images you uploaded because per Tardis:Images and perspective, images must come from an in-universe source. This is an extension of the policy against using real world information on in-universe articles. Thanks.

On a related note, is the Weltausstellung 1873 Wien called that in the story, or is it referred to by its English name? P&P talk contribs 21:35, December 13, 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, the manual of style is a big, spread-out document and no one is faulting you for not knowing every specific of it.

You're spot on with your suspicions about page naming. Wikipedia is not our guide, the stories are. Based on what you've said, I think "Weltausstellung 1873 Wien" should be "Vienna Exposition", "Vienna Ring Road" should be "Ringstraße" (might want to keep a redirect for searchability though), and "Stephansplatz, Vienna" should just be "Stephansplatz". I can do the page moves. Are there any others? P&P talk contribs 01:49, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

We should probably use the Austrian German spelling for Ringstraße, with a redirect at the alternate spelling. For Wallmann, I'd use the most common spelling in absence of the script. P&P talk contribs 20:36, December 15, 2015 (UTC)

Booklet illustrations are a-okay. They even have their own copyright template, {{BF illustration}}, under "Illustrations and Art" on the drop-down. I know the art from The Light at the End and some of the main range stories has been used on other pages. P&P talk contribs 22:32, December 15, 2015 (UTC)

Linking (Emperor)

Hi! Worry not, linking "Empress" to Emperor is no problem at all. All I was doing was enforcing policy on over-wikification: you had already linked to the page in the same section and, in fact, even in the same bullet point. It's just simple cleanup to keep linking to a minimum. If ever you have Empress on a page without a prior link to Emperor (or at least without a prior link in the relevant page section), then it shouldn't be a problem to do precisely what you did. RogerAckroydLives ☎ 04:08, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. Sorry if it felt as if I was "muscling in" on your work, I just decided to take the opportunity to do a quick clean-up while I changed the "Larisch" link in preparation for a page move. Always good to have someone working on stories from the "less important" mediums, especially BF. Happy editing! RogerAckroydLives ☎ 10:57, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

Naming conventions for BF plays

By the way, seeing your discussions with Skittles and P&P, I thought it might be beneficial to inform you of name availability with regard to Big Finish Productions. The particular story you're currently working on, The Silver Turk, is one of many audio dramas which BF has made the script of available to subscribers. This practice started with the monthly release The Magic Mousetrap, and continues today in the MR. Therefore, it might be beneficial to get in touch with a user who does subscribe to the monthly dramas when you wish to find a definitive spelling when doing any work on MR releases from #120 onwards. RogerAckroydLives ☎ 11:09, December 14, 2015 (UTC)

RE: bot work

You're welcome. Happy editing! :)
Leave me a message if you ever see something that needs automation to get done.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 09:06, December 15, 2015 (UTC)

Big Finish information

If you need any more information don't hesitate to ask, also refering to to last message on User:SOTO's wall, the credits are on the early CD releases just in the booklet inside not on the cover. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 17:54, December 17, 2015 (UTC)

Any time :)

I'm so glad you're apt to learn. Anything you need, anything you don't understand, feel free to ask me.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 09:03, December 18, 2015 (UTC)

Mary's Story edit

Thanks for letting me know but, in all honesty, I did not even notice that you edited the page after me! --GusF ☎ 22:50, December 21, 2015 (UTC)

Barkers and punters

Hey, I'm just wondering. In the cast list of The Silver Turk, "barkers" and "punters" are listed, but not linked. There's currently a page at Barker for an individual named that. What is meant by barkers and punters in the cast list? If barker (or Barker?) is a page that should be created, then Barker the individual will need dabbing.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 22:01, January 2, 2016 (UTC)

If I only knew what is meant. These are not named individuals, for sure. Most probably, these refer to the audience at the Silver Turk's performance. They have no legible words, essentially. And I have no idea about the difference between the two: barkers when the audience is unhappy and punters when happy? Perhaps, it is clarified in the script. As for pages, I thought about it and I (as little experience as I have) wouldn't create a page for them. I wouldn't know what to say. "People unhappy that the performance of the Silver Turk was interrupted by the Doctor who received their money back from Heinz (The Silver Turk)"? But I think really my main problem that without the script I cannot distinguish the two groups. Amorkuz ☎ 23:00, January 2, 2016 (UTC)

I knew there was something I'd forgotten about. Lol

Ah, perhaps. If that is the case, maybe they shouldn't have a page. I mean, those names aren't mentioned in the dialogue. They're essentially extras. Just the cast being reused to affirm or reject the people on stage.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 23:47, January 2, 2016 (UTC)

UPD. It turns out I did not know what barker means. By accident I heard this used today and followed up. So Barkers are not the audience. Barkers are people at the Vienna Exposition advertising its various exhibits. They actually have words: for instance, they name some exhibits that I plan to make pages for. Punters then are the audience. This is the meaning 1.1 form here. Still, since the words themselves are not uttered in-universe, perhaps, it is not necessary to create pages for them. What they do can easily be described without referring to these rare and specialised words. Amorkuz ☎ 04:15, January 6, 2016 (UTC)

UPD2. And it also turns out that the script lists some lines for the Barkers with the stage direction "scattered under". These lines are barely audible behind the dialogue in the forefront. However, these barkers advertise various attractions at the Vienna Exposition. I plan to create pages for these attractions (e.g., Temple of Kyoto, Machine Hall) and create a page Barkers (The Silver Turk) for the characters mentioned in the script. This page by itself should not run afoul of Barker. However, this would establish an occupation "barker", which may need its own page, with the dabbing consequences you described. Amorkuz ☎ 19:47, March 27, 2016 (UTC)

Also

Oh, also, if you think you're up to it, would you mind adding an entry to 11 September (and essentially the same text to 1873) at some point in the future? I haven't listened to it myself yet, but it's been on my list to add info to that date from Silver Turk for years.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 22:06, January 2, 2016 (UTC)

Not at all, in fact, it is my plan to go through all the links on story's page and see if the linked pages should have some info added. But I would probably do it after making notes, references and continuity remarks some of which didn't make it to the plot. But this will not happen soon. In fact, I fear work will prevent me from editing the next two weeks at all. Amorkuz ☎ 23:00, January 2, 2016 (UTC)

Aww, that's too bad. But there's certainly no rush. It'll be great to have some new date info. :)
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 23:47, January 2, 2016 (UTC)

Byronic befuddlement

An abomination indeed...

It was indeed right of you to go searching through sources for a direct reference: thankfully, there is (at least) one, found within The Witch from the Well, due to which I have proposed the renaming. You are correct in thinking that naming based on real world info is generally a no-go, but if in future you come across a similar such famous historical figure, bringing it up on the talk page wouldn't be against the policies we follow. You may simply be advised that the community doesn't see the need, but I'm afraid it's the best you can do. RogerAckroydLives ☎ 09:07, January 24, 2016 (UTC)

Cologne

Standard nomenclature would dictate that, should Cologne not be dedicated to the city, the article concerning the city would be at Cologne, Germany.

A dab page would not be appropriate until at least three pages bear the name cologne.

Is "cologne" in fact synonymous with "perfume", anyway, or should they be covered separately? Hmm, perhaps not; to my knowledge, there's no clear distinction between the two made in the DWU.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 20:00, February 17, 2016 (UTC)

Robots, Gramm Puppets, Hierarchies, and the Game of Rassilon

Well first off, I'm probably not the person to go to for a such large proposition.

The reason the every robot page has the category Robot is the same reason that every page about a planet has the category Planet; Robot and Planet are both in this wiki's badge competition (look right). Robots is also a hidden category, meaning that the average reader will not even notice it. I hope this explains your questions, and if you still have a problem with the system I would suggest starting a discussion at the Panoptican. The Champion of Time ☎ 12:19, April 6, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Silence in the Library

You're welcome and thanks for not getting upset ;-) I would like to know too. I'm afraid it is a convenient gimmick of the authors to justify the missed rendezvous.HarveyWallbanger ☎ 15:54, April 15, 2016 (UTC)

HTML tags

The cleanup work wasn't too taxing, I have a find-and-replace script. :) If cutting and pasting is the issue, you might try using "Command-Shift-V" instead of "Command-V" when you paste. This performs a "paste without formatting", solely pasting the text.

If that doesn't fix it, you should definitely file a bug report at Special:Contact so Wikia staff are made aware of the issue. P&P talk contribs 23:37, April 22, 2016 (UTC)

Image for Bremm

Good timing, I was just going over recent uploads.

BF cover images are a-okay for subjects only seen (heard?) in audio. In fact, one of my many projects is trying to make such images as good as possible. The current infobox images for Iris Wildthyme and Tamsin Drew are good examples, but I might be slightly biased seeing as I uploaded those.

I'm not sure about Vortex images thing. Has there ever been promotional art in Vortex that wasn't on the CD cover or in the booklet?

With regards to your second point, it would actually be worse to have an image from TV of an unrelated Cyberman than to have no image at all. Like you said, one wouldn't be representative of the whole species.

There is one problem with your image that you didn't mention, though: width. The minimum is 250 pixels, and yours is 225. But don't lose hope! The full size cover to the audio story has the same image of the Cyberman at a larger size. You could crop that down and still be well over 250. If you like, I'd even do it for you. P&P talk contribs 01:24, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Origin of Mary Shelley

Hi there. I would say the reason is that we have so many individuals who have their home planet origin in their infobox that it doesn't seem uniformal for some and not others to have a country instead. After all, not all characters in the DWU have a country of origin. Hope that helps. --Revan\Talk 17:22, April 23, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Silver Doctor

Oh, that is problematic... Is there a better term for "something modeled after something else"? When I was making the template I was using a bit of a looser definition of "Duplicate". There are really only three individuals in my list that are truly duplicates; the rest are robots, fictional beings, and Xoanon. What I was aiming for was a list of people/things which were at some level copies of the Doctor. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Silver Doctor was based on the real Doctor. The Champion of Time ☎ 00:00, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

You should have just told me to read The Silver Turk's talk page. My angle on this is that the Silver Doctor's voice is modeled after the Doctor's, something that I'm sure you agree with. Please remember that I never once said that the list is for physical duplicates. If that were the case I wouldn't have added Xoanon and DOCTOR; two computer programs which definitely sound like the Doctor, but in no way physically resemble him (well, Xoanon uses the Doctor as his avatar, but you get the idea). I will admit that I originally believed that Silver Doctor was about the Gramm Puppet, but I don't see why the navigation box can't have both. The Champion of Time ☎ 02:53, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

And on that subject, I'd recommend you make a behind the scenes section for Silver Doctor where you can outline why he is not Eighth Doctor (puppet). The Champion of Time ☎ 02:53, April 24, 2016 (UTC)

Page moves

Just restating what User:Skittles the hog posted above: non-admins are not permitted to move pages on this wiki. Please see Thread:128198. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎ 02:20, April 27, 2016 (UTC)

"Sometimes, violating a policy is better than not violating it." It's not your job to decide that. I don't need a bunch of new users making page moves (or violating policy) because they see a prolific editor such as yourself doing it. If you have a problem with the timing of a page move, and there's no response on the talk page, then ask an admin to take care of it.

If you go to Special:Recentchanges or Special:WikiActivity, you can see which admins are active/available. Thanks. Shambala108 ☎ 02:40, May 4, 2016 (UTC)

Soundcloud

Thanks for the positive feedback! Soundcloud integration was added to Wikia relatively recently, and provides a much cleaner solution than our older embed system.

The Bremm image looks A-OK. P&P talk contribs 21:22, May 6, 2016 (UTC)

Those little aliens

You are correct in the spellings of the Varaxils and their home planet Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 13:09, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

Tenth Doctor

If you want you can have a look over my articles I have created to see if I haven't missed anything vital. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 15:01, May 27, 2016 (UTC)

Shelley stories

No worries. Thank you for the message you left for me (a while ago) re. The Silver Turk. I'll have a look ASAP. RogerAckroydLives ☎ 05:27, May 28, 2016 (UTC)

Gerald

Thanks for correcting this article. I think this was made when I used to finish article before the end of the story in order to avoid spoilers. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 16:31, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Not sure, need to relisten to it to make sure, either that or "Gerald" or add a statment saying his rela name is not known. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 17:02, May 30, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Oops

No problem. These things happen. P&P talk contribs 17:00, June 1, 2016 (UTC)

Cromwells' dating for 1650s

Hi..

Just so you know, and I'm sure others may have brought this up, in your "Reference Desk discussion" concerning Cromnwell's dating...you said " Charles I was executed in January 1949". I think you mean 1649. Thanks Mister Fifty ☎ 14:09, June 2, 2016 (UTC)

Cologne

Ok, I did some looking around and performed a few actions regarding this subject.

First of all, I deleted the redirect of "Cologne". If necessary, it can be recreated at some point as either the scent or a dab page.

I did a little research, and found that for many cities (and towns) the dab term is "city" (or "town"); despite what SOTO posted earlier on this page, I didn't find (in a cursory search) any example of "city, country" or "city, state" except for Richmond, Virginia (probably because there are several Richmonds that could exist). So for now, I would go with creating "Cologne (city)". If we ever get another city of Cologne, we can change it then.

I've removed or changed the incorrect links you mentioned on my talk page. The page for the city can now be created. Shambala108 ☎ 03:12, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Hmm, somehow I managed to delete "perfume" instead of "cologne" (too many open windows, too late at night), but User:Doug86 took care of it. Sorry if that caused you any confusion. Shambala108 ☎ 23:05, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

17th century

Hi! Sorry for the problems re the 17th century page, but those pages are only for events that can't be attributed to specific date pages. Usually I remove specific dates whenever I come across it on a century page, and I was just too lazy to check the 17th's page history; I didn't realize that it was just added. So I added the info onto Talk:17th century so it can be accessed whenever needed. Shambala108 ☎ 23:10, June 3, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Mitzi

Yeah, there is a rule (though I'm not sure it's posted anywhere, I'll do a little digging to find out) that all infobox titles must match the article title, minus the DAB term. I try to catch them whenever I can, but it wouldn't surprise me if only three people on the whole wiki even know the rule, so several fall through the cracks. Shambala108 ☎ 13:57, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

Ugh, I've just spent over an hour searching for this rule. I know it was a message left by User:CzechOut, and I'm reasonably sure it was mentioned either on someone's talk page or an article talk page. That happens a lot, where a basic rule isn't spelled out in policy but an admin informs a user about it. If I can find it, I plan to add it to the right policy, but for now you'll have to take my word for it ;) Shambala108 ☎ 23:24, June 4, 2016 (UTC)

More Spellings :)

1) Odic and Lokic 2) WitchStar 3) Whetstone 4) Sutherland’s Meadow 5) Pherkad flux imp 6) Morris 7) tyrillium 8) Please, don’t disturb the Erisi 9) Third Trierarch to the Varax Citrine

There you go, there's also something in the script telling us which Finicia and Lucern it is, the versions from the 17th centuary have [c17] after their name in the script. Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 09:45, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

It's the Pherkad Array, as in the array of stars Pherkad is in Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 16:43, June 6, 2016 (UTC)

Erisi

I'll need to re-listen to both stories to make a proper judgement. If you want to though i don't have many Adric♥Nyssa∩Talk? 17:13, June 9, 2016 (UTC)

The Edge

Just wanted to let you know that I've moved "The Edge (audio story)" to "The Edge (Graceless audio story)". Shambala108 ☎ 01:00, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Not a problem. I see you left a redlink for the other The Edge so that's good enough for now until someone familiar with the story wants to make the page. Shambala108 ☎ 14:12, June 25, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Uncredited cast for copies

Hi! I understand your difficulties, but as an admin I have to think of how decisions will affect the wiki, and in particular, how new users will react to certain situations. My concern is that new users will see the occasional unsourced uncredited cast and think it's ok to do it in all cases.

However, I do have a solution for you. Instead of putting such copies (and similar situations) in "uncredited cast", put them in "notes" (or "story notes" as the case may be). Use a sentence similar to:

"Though actor X was uncredited for the role, s/he also plays/voices character A, who is a _." (insert situation here, such as copy or puppet or whatever)

What I particularly like about this solution is that it allows for explanation, which we don't ever put in cast/character lists.

Thanks! Shambala108 ☎ 03:23, June 27, 2016 (UTC)

Complex mergers and exchanges

First, on Doctormania. I don't believe these proposed cases are completely cut and dry. While, as you say, T:DAB does say in-universe should be undabbed, there is some precedent for things concerning meta references breaking this rule, like Tom Baker (TV Action!) and Doctor Who The Official Annual 2007 (The Girl Who Loved Doctor Who). All stories are automatically dabbed, so The Five Doctors and Love and War can get a bye, but DWAS is a major institution and it would be pretty surprising for it to not get the undabbed article name. I would leave the DWAS pages as they are, but switch the Doctor Who? ones.

Re: the merge, I'll go ahead and do it. Proposed merges go to Category:Proposed mergers, but it's not checked very often and your best bet for getting it done is to message an admin, as you've done. P&P talk contribs 02:55, June 30, 2016 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for taking the time to make the missing navbox in the first place. If you ever need template help, let me know. P&P talk contribs 22:15, June 30, 2016 (UTC)

Time Lord television stories

Your proposal is highly controversial. Gallifrey ≠ Time Lord, if for no other reason than that we have a story which depicts the moment that Gallifreyans became Time Lords. (But there are many other problems besides that).

The category description on Category:Time Lord television stories is ancient, and rather silly, besides.

In my initial judgement, T:CAT NAME would probably be best applied by getting rid of this category altogether, getting rid of the current explanatory text, refactoring the name, or some combination thereof. But certainly, it won't be changed to Gallifreyan television stories.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  16:07: Thu 30 Jun 2016

Doctor Who?

What you've described is an uncontroversial name change. You're absolutely right that the rules are quite clear on the subject: in-universe names take precedence over real world names. Therefore, {{rename}} is inappropriate, because {{rename}} automatically starts a talk page discussion, which is wholly unnecessary in this case. You also don't need to alert admin on their talk pages for such things.

Instead, please avail yourself of our speedy rename service, and suggest Doctor Who? (comic series) as the new name.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  16:07: Thu 30 Jun 2016

Worry about nothing you've done. You're an exceptionally careful editor and we all appreciate that. By "unnecessary" I didn't mean to suggest you'd done anything bad. I just was trying to point you in the most efficient direction. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading your comments and think you're genuinely interested in making Tardis a better place. :)
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  18:56: Thu 30 Jun 2016

Re: Taggani

I don't have my copy of Free Comic Book Day 2016 with me at the moment, but doesn't the Doctor say something about Taggani's ancestors being human? CoT ☎ 00:00, July 8, 2016 (UTC)

Slavarians

Hi, unfortunately I do not have the book. There is a particular website out there that tracks short stories but the exact name escapes me, but I believe it may be called the Dr. Who reference guide. I may have consulted it. The edit was long ago and I'm trying to recuperate from mental exhaustion so I hope this helps. --Thunderush ☎ 23:40, July 9, 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome! --Thunderush ☎ 23:37, July 10, 2016 (UTC)

Hey! I have no problem whatsoever with you editing over me, I'm actually rather grateful for it. I have yet to listen to both the Diary of River Song and UNIT: Shutdown, as Big Finish is getting a little expensive. However, the thought of them doing many different "castes" of the same species in unrelated stories is very interesting.

I just like to create the pages, if they have not been created already, and put the little information I know (or in this case don't) down so that other people can just come along and add to the pages without the hassle of creating them from scratch! :)

I'm sorry! I was trying to get the pages open so that people who have already listened to the audio stories can read through them and add to them, I hadn't read your comment on my Talk page or on the Sanukuma page when I created the alternative Kamishi page. I'd only read what you added to the Tengobushi page, and because I didn't see any Kamishi page which could link to the Tengobushi page I created my own. As someone who has listened to both stories you are much more qualified at making the decisions than I! :)

Speedy renames

Hey! Thanks for moving the links for the speedy renames you request. I do have a favor to ask, though. If you're suggesting a rename because of spelling discrepancies or uncertainties, can you leave a note either in the BTS or on the talk page? I don't know these stories so I can't do it myself. Just something like:

• Big Finish doesn't give a spelling for blah-blah's name.
• Blah-blah's name was also spelt as "bla-bla" in the scripts (or whatever)

Basically just letting any user/viewer of the page know that we are not sure of the spelling. But since we do know the name, the page wouldn't warrant a {{Conjecture}} tag. Thanks! Shambala108 ☎ 16:09, July 11, 2016 (UTC)

Re: Tut-Ankh-Amen

Hello! I am so sorry about that dating. I see the "1926" could come from the very page of The Gods Walk Among Us but it doesn't make any sense (I haven't read that comic book). I am not usually so summary while adding information. Please, correct with the "1922", even if it is a piece of information relevant to the "Behind the scenes" section, due to the peculiarity of the DWU you've mentioned. Thank you! HarveyWallbanger ☎ 07:55, July 13, 2016 (UTC)

Mary's Story

I don't really give a shit about the paragraph; I'm not going to fight you over it if you really think it should stay there. I'll give my exact reasons if you like, though:

1. This wiki doesn't normally believe in "canons" or "continuities" or the like, or try to divide any Doctor's life by medium.

2. If there were multiple "continuities," it wouldn't make any sense to divide them my medium. That would put Short Trips: Repercussions, which features the Eighth Doctor in Charley, in the prose continuity instead of the audio one, and would put The Shadow of the Scourge (with Benny and "New" Ace) in the audio continuity.

3. Stories that refer to multiple media aren't anything like as rare as the paragraph implies. Zagreus is probably the most infamous attempt to separate different series into different timelines, but even it only tries to say that the EDAs and Big Finish Eighth Doctor audios are separate - it has references to the New Adventures, in particular. Big Bang Generation contains the Twelfth Doctor (TV), Big Finish Bernice Summerfield characters (audio), Keri (New Adventures/prose), a reference to the Obverse (EDAs/prose), and a reference to Stacy and Ssard (Radio Times/comics). The Plague Herds of Excelis is an audio story about a New Adventures character and a BBC Books character. The Elixir of Doom has the Eighth Doctor in it, references the EDAs, has the audio-created version of Iris, and references the TV episode The Death of the Doctor. That's pretty much the opposite of "first and only" and "explicitly and unambiguously."

4. If the paragraph was made a good deal more specific, it might be more accurate - but it wouldn't be any use, and it would barely be meaningful. It might be accurate to say, "This story is notable for the fact that the Eighth Doctor acknowledges companions from his comic, prose and audio stories. As of 2016, it is one of the few Eighth Doctor stories to refer to all three of those particular media at once." But I'm not sure "notable" is strictly true, then. Fwhiffahder ☎ 20:25, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Linking and Forum discussions

Heya :) Thanks for continuing to be so active in our forums!

A little observation, though. :)

In some of your discussions -- Thread:196122 comes to recent mind -- you've failed to create any links within the discussion itself, but have way overlinked in the "Pages most relevant to this discussion" section.

The links in the bottom section are much, much less useful than within the body of the discussion. See, those bottom links aren't direct links at all. Takes two clicks to get to where you're going, and they'll stick around long after the discussion has wrapped up. And you'll probably forget to create a link to the most important page if you rely too much on those bottom links. In Thread:196122, there are no links to Rulers of the Universe, and that's what the discussion is about!

You have a much higher chance of engaging an audience if you create a lot of juicy links within your first (blue-backgrounded) post. Obviously, you've sometimes, maybe even often, done a great job of hitting your readers with links from the start. But just remember: inline links are what a wiki is all about! And further consider that you really have to -- every single time -- link to the main subject(s) of your thread. Thanks!
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  00:39: Wed 20 Jul 2016

Apologies for bad user talk page etiquette

Heya :) I'm sorry; I just noticed that I posted my reply to your comments on my user talk page. Strictly speaking, that's bad form; I should have posted to your talk page, so that you would get a message alert.

Because I travel to so many different wikis while working for Wikia, I sometimes get confused as to the proper way of doing things here on my "home" wiki.
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  23:42: Wed 20 Jul 2016

Finer points of page moving

T:SPEEDY is for completely non-controversial moves only. That means there can be no aspect of the move which can be contended under our rules. So if someone has started an article at, say, Nurse (The End of Tiem) you could certainly T:SPEEDY a move to Nurse (The End of Time), because "Time" just isn't spelt "Tiem". Or if someone moved Jo Grant to Jo Jones, we would certainly T:SPEEDY it back to Grant, due to T:CHAR NAMES.

You are right in thinking that the very best dab term for a one-name character is simply to supply the other name. We would prefer Barack Obama to Obama (The End of Time), for instance. The episode actually does use his whole name, we know it's authorial intent for us to think of the incumbent president, and we know how to spell "Barack" in the real world. So if we encountered Obama (The End of Time), it would be a non-controversial move to Barack Obama.

Similarly, we would like to go with Freeman Lifford rather than Lifford (Story name). But I don't think we can because "Freeman" can be "Friemann", "Freiman" or probably "Freimann" as well. It's not a slam dunk. And "Lifford" is unusual enough that it doesn't need a dab term, anyway. So, until and unless there are other Liffords running around, the best PAGENAME is probably just Lifford.

Now, what happens if you've only got one name and its spelling is speculative? You take your best shot at the spelling, add {{conjecture}} to the top of the page, and add a BTS note as to why you're not certain about the spelling of that name.

In a fictional universe such as the DWU, where spellings like Raxacoricofallapatorian exist, a rule like "speculative spellings are never allowed" wouldn't be viable. That's why we merely try to avoid speculative spellings, and to use them only as a last resort -- and then only when their speculative status is clearly labeled. And then only when other reasonable spellings are created as redirects to our "best guesses".

Remember, what I've been talking about up to this point has been about the conditions under which T:SPEEDY can be used. That's really quite different than what you were asking in the back half of your latest question. All I've been saying is that you can't use T:SPEEDY to change to a speculative spelling. It's possible (if unlikely) to move to a speculative spelling, but you'd have to use the regular {{rename}} process. And even then, you should be prepared for the possibility that people still might feel that it's better to go with a Name (story) PAGENAME than a SpeculativeFirstName SolidLastName formulation. For instance, I don't think I'd ever accept Arkle Jenkins over Jenkins (Story name) as the PAGENAME, simply because that name can be spelt several different ways. Now, if it were Joshua Jenkins, you might have me...
czechout<staff /> ☎ ✍  00:26: Thu 21 Jul 2016

Re: Master actor

Hi! First of all, apologies for not getting back to you on this sooner. I read your post the day you sent it, but couldn't answer it right away, so I had forgotten about it by the time I came back on-site.

I'm not sure what your question is. Is there some kind of dispute with this issue? As long as you have a valid source, you can add it to the uncredited cast on the story page(s). Thanks! Shambala108 ☎ 23:23, July 30, 2016 (UTC)

Sutekh

Really? Sutekh is clearly seen at the bottom of the panel. How on Earth does Sutekh not appear in Hacked? CoT ? 21:38, August 22, 2016 (UTC)

Ah, so you haven't seen Pyramids of Mars. Well basically, Sutekh's mask with the big green eyes and red outlines is unique. He's more recognisable with the mask on than with the mask off. The majority of Osirians are shown to not wear masks, while the masks we do see are similar, but not identical. CoT ? 14:59, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

I've been following the Titan Tenth Doctor series since it started! If you have any questions concerning Osirans and Anubis feel free to ask away.

PS My previous message may have been slightly misleading. Only two Osirans appear in Pyramids of Mars. I was thinking about the Osirons in general. CoT ? 23:00, August 23, 2016 (UTC)

New York, New York

I was absolutely just going for consistency. I suppose there'd be nothing wrong with them all being just "New York [...]". It wouldn't align with the name of the page for New York City, but I take your argument, and yes, that would work just as well, if applied to all of them (with the exception of category:New York City itself).
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 19:02, August 24, 2016 (UTC)

I just went with that option because there were fewer categories to move. I can still absolutely go the other way if you make a case; I wouldn't mind. I also noticed we do have Category:Towns and cities located in New York, so apparently it's not absolutely unheard of to have a category for the state and not the city.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 00:26, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

You make a good point. It's New York State now. And I have to agree with you on New York City, as well.

There is far more clarity to it, and it's not like we've actively avoided long category names much in the past. I mean, we've got Category:People from the real world encountered by the Doctor, at least for now, and I'm sure plenty others. "New York City streets" is not offensively long, and, you're right, jibes better with T:CAT NAMES than its alternative.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 23:03, August 30, 2016 (UTC)

Seeker

Sorry about taking a while to respond, but yes the Seeker does seem to be an Osiran service robot, as it is a robot created to serve Anubis. At the same time, it is unique and has appeared in multiple stories. I'd say you should create a separate article for it. CoT ? 16:12, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

You're welcome

:)
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 22:29, September 14, 2016 (UTC)

Re: {{PAGENAME}} replacements

Hi! I assumed adding subst: before {{PAGENAME}} was accepted and welcomed. If I misunderstood, I can revert all my changes concerning PAGENAME if necessary. Please let me know. By the way, I am sorry for any inconveniences I may have caused. --Ivi104 ☎ 21:26, October 14, 2016 (UTC)

All right, I'll ask the admins, thanks! However, as demonstrated, I can preform a large amount of edits in a relatively small time. Would it be OK if I corrected spelling/grammar en masse? --Ivi104 ☎ 22:10, October 14, 2016 (UTC)

Infobox names

Yes, so a page called "shop keeper" shouldn't be named "unknown" in the infobox, and Ludens Nimrod Kendrick Cord Longstaff XLI shouldn't say "Porridge". Infoboxes should never give a totally different name to the one in the heading, but the only reason the title of the page doesn't include "Mr" is T:HONOUR. T:HONOUR does not prevent it from being include in the infobox. Page titles will never include "Mr" or "Mrs", so we've always considered that to be another exception, on top of removing disambiguation terms.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 00:31, October 26, 2016 (UTC)

Titan Bundle

Hey Amorkuz, you might already know about this, but it would feel absolutely criminal to not inform you. For the next 11 days, Titan Comics and humblebundle.com are raising money for Children in Need by giving away $209 worth of their Doctor Who comics to anyone that donates at least $15. Seeing as you are currently working your way through some of the earlier Titan Comics, I thought this might be invaluable to you. CoT ? 16:01, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Novel characters

Well it really should be who's the main character of the book. If a particular novel is told from the point of view by someone else who meets the Doctor, they'd go first. I don't own the Class novels (at least yet), but Tanya does seem to be the central character there. I suppose it should be in regular order after her, not order of appearance.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 19:38, October 29, 2016 (UTC)

Lowing Field

Yeah, that'd be the one. That field is massive, by the way. I know they're renovated, and obviously got huge donations, perhaps from Barbara Wright (it's not in her memory because she's not on the Roll of Honours). But for a high school, that really is a massive playing field.

As for Lowe (clone), there's no point in renaming him, seeing as there isn't another clone, but—now there's three, Lowe can be a dab page.

On a slightly-different-but-mostly-same topic, take care when you add students to the {{Coal Hill School}} template—and I'm super grateful that you do—that you put them in the right year. If it's not explicitly mentioned, but the character's implied to be the same age as the gang, just place them there. I had to do some rough estimations for a bunch of characters listed now. But if it's mentioned they're not, you'll want to put them in a row above or below where the Coal Hill defenders are situated, depending on what year they're in. If it looks a bit messy in the code, I apologise.

Oh, and please let me know if it mentions anywhere that Quill's class number is Class B3. Mind you, it probably doesn't. We haven't had a good shot of the door yet on TV, so I feel a bit uneasy creating it without a source.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 19:05, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

Damn, I should have gone with Lower's Field. Thanks for searching it. The main characters of Class are all in Year 12; April tells Tanya right at the beginning of For Tonight We Might Die that the prom is for Year 12, so she technically counts. Anyone in their chemistry class, or who attended the prom, is in Year 12.

The teachers are divided into Coal Hill School and Coal Hill Academy. The rest of the staff, as you can see, is just chronological.

Ooh, btw, how many instances of "Bunghole" referring to the rip in space-time? Is it just Tanya that uses it?
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 20:03, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

Mm, yes, perhaps that is the best name for it. Good to know rift is used a bunch in the novels, because I think it's only said once on TV, by Charlie in For Tonight, where it's mostly called a tear. Coal Hill Space-Time Rift will do just fine, I think. :)
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 21:04, November 1, 2016 (UTC)

Joyriders

Would you consider category:Joyriders as a category to join together those who used the service, and took over the body of another? It would be under category:Individuals by association.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 21:35, November 3, 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, I pretty much know the whole plot at this point. I didn't mention it, but I did already agree that the alien pilot wouldn't go in the category, especially as, as I understand it, the "Joyriders" name and company came after him. Now that I know about the Ram twist, I'd agree that he shouldn't go in there either, as he's not a client (presumably) and not doing it for at all the same reasons...the ones inherent to the name "Joyriders".
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 00:20, November 4, 2016 (UTC)

Class novels in Canadialand

I have been wondering: if you don't mind answering, where did you get your (presumably digital) copies of the Class novels? Last I checked, they aren't available on Amazon.ca, and neither the British or American sites will allow me to purchase ebooks from here in Canada. I did not get any hits when searching on any of the major Canadian online bookstores I could think of. I've been wanting to buy those books for a while, but I honestly just don't know where to look.

If you have any useful information for me, please let me know.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 06:35, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for letting me know. It is quite weird how the books are being sold in the US, where the series isn't airing yet, but not here. Shipping them in from US Amazon would be overly expensive for what I'm getting, as they have an annoying habit of charging shipping fees for each item, even if they're all being sent out at once. I'll have to figure it out, but I will get these books at some point, hopefully soon.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 07:13, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

Now it seems they've stopped offering them in ebook form at all on either US or UK Amazon. Weird.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 07:16, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

Or, possibly, the Kindle edition is listed as paperback? [1] In any case, if I have to order physical copies from the States, shipping will legitimately be as much as I'd be paying for the books. Not ideal.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 07:22, November 13, 2016 (UTC)

Change your favourite wikis list

Hi Amorkuz, you might want to remove the Paul Magrs Wikia from your list of favourite wikis as it calls those that support this wiki's validity policies "fascist bastards" on its front page. CoT ? 01:23, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

Hi. This is the person who made the Paul Magrs wiki. I'm just stopping by (some of) the talk pages TheChampionOfTime has been making these comments on to clarify the concerns s/he has had: You may have noticed that the front page of that wiki refers to the editors of this wiki here as "fascist bastards." That's meant to be tongue in cheek, and not a serious criticism. You may also have noticed that a lot of story pages are shamelessly duplicated from pages on this wiki. That's not plagiarism; I used the Wikia import/export feature to preserve the edit history so that all the authors are properly cited, and the license (CC-BY-SA) is followed. Fwhiffahder ☎ 02:38, November 16, 2016 (UTC)

I don't think my talk page for this wiki is really the best place to bring up your concerns about another wiki. Fwhiffahder ☎ 15:10, November 17, 2016 (UTC)

Re: past

I do that too, when I've been adding plots to the STs and then switch over to creating in-universe pages. Shambala108 ☎ 23:08, November 21, 2016 (UTC)

Some advice

Hi! I noticed your recent conversation with User:DENCH-and-PALMER about editing at cross-purposes. In the future, if you plan to edit a page for a long time and don't want someone else to cause an edit conflict, you can use the {{Inuse}} template. As you can see at Template:Inuse, it can be left up for 72 hours and, while it can't prevent an editor from editing while you use it, at least it can keep away those who actually see and read the template. Hope this helps! Shambala108 ☎ 03:44, November 25, 2016 (UTC)

Re: audio credits

Thanks a lot! I'll get to it later. And thanks for your offer of help, I'll let you know if anything needs to be done. Shambala108 ☎ 15:10, December 7, 2016 (UTC)

Congrats

Nice job on the Clockwork Award for editing clockwork robot.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 02:28, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

Shade Vassily

I merged all three articles into Shade Vassily, and just sort of dumped the text from the other two onto it. All yours, now.
× SOTO (☎/✍/↯) 17:30, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

Sorry

Sorry mate, I though hypercubes were broken and I needed to contact SOTO in his last active place. I was wrong about they hypercubes being broken though. Sorry pal for the inconvenience. Yours faithfully DENCH-and-PALMER 23:08, December 29, 2016 (UTC)