Talk:Doctor Who Wiki: Difference between revisions

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It's so interesting:,
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This page is '''only''' for discussing ''the editing of'' our main page.
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If you want to talk about other topics, your best bet is to post a new thread in [[Forum:The Cloisters|the forums]].


==Home Page==
General ''[[Doctor Who]]'' discussion and questions about a single narrative or behind-the-scenes point — where that answer is likely a known '''fact''', like "Who played <role> in <story>?" or "In which issues of DWM will you '''not''' find comics?" — are best put to the the [https://tardis.fandom.com/f Discussions board].
Might get shouted down but anyone else think the homepage could use alittle tweaking...not too much though, just to make it look more accessible.
Any ideas?
Thanks --[[User:The10thdoctor|The10thdoctor]] 22:37, April 24, 2010 (UTC)


==Help Please==
For editing assistance and guidance, please contact an [[Tardis:Administrators|admin]].
Sorry but I've been away for about 6 months and as the [[Tardis:Panopticon|Panopticon]] seems to be abandoned, can somebody give a summary of the decisions/changes/ideas made to this wiki, so I know where to talk and how to contribute/edit.
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Thanks,
== Transmats ==
:--[[User:GingerM|GingerM]] 19:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)


::It's not abandoned, it's just now at [[Forum:Panopticon]]. {{:User:Ghelæ/sig}} 19:13, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Ironically, it seems to me that the recent forum has sorted out everything ''but'' the Transmat design. Effectively, unless someone corrects me, the plan is that my "spin offs" module will link to the relevant pages and not transmats.


== Obituary announcements on Main Page ==
With this in mind, it's now time to go back to discussing TGG's transmat design. However, with that comes, in my opinion, discussions of the Transmat space itself. I think we need to really talk about updating this space, as I think it's barely been touched since creation and doesn't serve quite the purpose that it could. As Bongo suggested in his closing post, I'd like to recommend a shift to in-universe transmat topics.


Just wondering what everyone thinks is an appropriate length time of time for carrying such announcements on the Main Page. Two weeks? A month? Also should we carry a message of support and condolence for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, as other wikis are doing?
I'd also like to recommend the landing pages be rewritten to favor more heavily new readers (as it stands, some landings read as if they're trying to explain how to ''edit'' first and foremost, which I think defeats the purpose). [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 20:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
--[[User:Freethinker1of1|Freethinker1of1]] 00:40, 22 Sep 2005 (UTC)


*I think a month is probably appropriate for obituaries. If the other wikis are carrying messages of support and condolences I think we should too. Anyone else have an opinion?--[[User:GingerM|GingerM]] 19:48, 25 Sep 2005 (UTC)
: Agreed on all fronts. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:57, 26 June 2023 (UTC)


== Statistics Page ==
::Hiya, just to let you guys know: I can't really contribute to the transmat discussion/produce new transmat concepts until partway through August; am very busy with other commitments at the moment. But I'll say this: I don't think there is an especially pressing need to get new transmats figured out just this second. Even just getting the main page up-to-date is a massive improvement. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I found a wikicities statistics page for this wiki [http://www.wikicities.com/wikistats/EN/TablesWikipediaTARDIS.htm here]. Should we put a link to it on the Main Page / somewhere else?--[[User:GingerM|GingerM]] 20:56, 16 Dec 2005 (UTC)


:A [[Special:Statistics|Statistics]] page already exists on this wiki, which is much easier to read and understand, without all the confusing tables and percentages the other one has. I think the one you found is more for the use of the administrators of Wikia, to monitor the activity levels of all the different wikis, making it easier to find and if necessary delete inactive and abandoned ones. --[[User:Freethinker1of1|Freethinker1of1]] 17:30, 17 Dec 2005 (UTC)
::: I generally think there's no harm in waiting, as you said. At the very least, until August, we can perhaps discuss what we want the Transmat landings to be like. Personally, I have trouble building excitement for them but I do think they need some change. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 20:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


==Category Organization Ideas==
:::: Absolutely. No one is obligated to edit, and it gives us time to actually create the transmat landing pages. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


I'm not a regular contributor to this wiki, but I have some suggestions for category organization on this wiki if anyone is interested:
== Adding a new "expanded media" section to the sidebar ==
As discussed in the [[Forum:The new transmats|closing post of the recent forum]], there's enough room on the sidebar for at least one more mini-module. It's been suggested that we either create one about prose fiction or video games. I however would also like to recommend stage plays as a contender - I know it's controversial as they've been historically non-valid, but I think it's a very interesting topic to read articles on. But personally, I'm currently thinking that video games would work the best as there's an interesting history of ''Doctor Who'' and gaming.


* Rather than lumping inanimate items into "Objects" have separated main categories for things like "Vehicles", "Weapons", "technology" (Gizmos? Gadgets?), etc.
Also, can I recommend a different ordering for the right column templates? I'm thinking the most logical order is [[:Template:Mainpage Box Doctors]], [[:Template:Mainpage Box Random]], [[:Template:Mainpage Box Welcome]], then the rest. It makes more sense to put the majority TV template first, then the random template, then all of the "not TV" templates in a row. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 21:05, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
* Merge "Galaxies" and "Planets" into a larger category called "Locations" or "Places"
* Maybe add a category for "Villains" (Good for races like Daleks and Cybermen, as well as individuals like Davros or The Master)


Otherwise, nice looking wiki. I will likely revisit often. --[[User:Majikjon|Majikjon]] 00:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
: Does anyone else have thoughts on this? [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:14, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


:Is it just me, or are there two many location and building categories?? Dividing them into earth, british, english/welsh/scottish AND types of buildings including churhces, theatres, colleges means there seem to be too many categories with only one or two pages each.
: I think that ordering would make more sense, yeah. I'm no expert on expanded media, so no opinion really on awarding mini-modules, but I just wanted to say I love the Doom's Day box! Although it misspells "seek" as "seak". (Also, maybe reconsider the comics heading "Stripped for Action"? Apparently it's a reference but I'm not sure it quite conveys the intended meaning...) I would put in a strong word for un-desaturating the images, but that's just my preference in general – I think the monochrome is too visually uninteresting – so I'm willing to shut up about it if everyone else likes the aesthetic. Off topic for this particular thread, but I think borders around the images might be nice for the "Partners in Crime" section, and it ''really'' needs to visually separate characters and creatives more clearly: right now it sort of looks like Julie Gardner is playing the role of Russell T Davies. Maybe even a little caption denoting their jobs? [[User:Starkidsoph|Starkidsoph]] [[User talk:Starkidsoph|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:48, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
:. Can someone please do some work on Sarah jane smiths unit work please and upload more alien objects?
[[User:Geek Mythology|Geek Mythology]] 17:51, July 3, 2010 (UTC)


== Featured articles ==
:: I've made a new section for discussing this. I personally think ending the era of monochrome is earned. Also, I want to voice my opinion that having the "crew" at the top of the page should be a temporary measure only done as we don't have pages for the other characters yet. The moment that the first special airs, I would personally like to have the other leads replace RTD, BW, Julie and MG. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 17:14, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
So should we vote on featured articles here? Or should we vote somewhere else? {{:User:Ghelæ/sig}} 17:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)


:Nope, here looks good. I nominate [[Andrew Hayden-Smith]] (since I'm ''just'' that self-centered) and [[Weevil]] (because it's a good page immediately pops to mind). I'll get back to when I think of some other good pages. [[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 17:20, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
::: I've fixed the ''Doom's Day'' box typo. Thanks for pointing it out. Borders can be added, but I don't see why it's needed if I'm honest. I agree that it would be good to move the crew away when we have more character pages. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


::well thank you for calling Weevil a good page, seeing the amount of work on it. however, IMO, it needs improving. see the discussion page for that entry. --[[User:***Stardizzy***|***Stardizzy***]] 21:41, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I decided to go ahead and create [[Template:Mainpage Box Games]], as I feel confident this is the option that casual readers will find the most interesting. I've added a few just to make the template function, but I encourage everyone to add sections based on games they are passionate about. Short of flash games and the such, I see no reason that most ''DW'' games can't be featured in some way in the rotation. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 23:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)


I NOMINATE The Black Guardian - He is the only One of a main series finale villain that hasnt had a spotlight article and people should look at him the same way they look at big characters like Davros/Daleks and the Cybermen. Its only a matter of time he'll be back for the new series. [[User:Michael Downey|Michael Downey]] 13:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
: Yeah, I'll probably do a section for ''[[The Edge of Reality (video game)|The Edge of Reality]]'' given I've just played it so it's fresh in my mind. {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 00:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC)


Alright, lets vote! {{:User:Ghelæ/sig}} 20:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
:: I've added it. The placement and order is all open to change. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:20, 4 July 2023 (UTC)


I nominate Mr.Smith {{:User:DoctorWho22592}} 13:55 28 November 2008 (UTC)
::: Well can we change it then? 😂 [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 13:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)


I nominate Andrew Hayden-Smith {{:User:DoctorWho21739}} 00.52 30 December 2008
== Spinoffs ==


===[[Black Guardian]]===
Just to note, I don't think we'd consider Doom's Day, TLV, or The Adventure Games as Spinoffs proper, and I still don't know why OS25 gave them circles. (The first two are multimedia projects that existed largely within the normal domains we're already covering and the other was explicitly billed as part of S5.) I don't think they belong. Fully agree with all the others, given the compromise. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:24, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
'''Score: '''1


===[[Weevil]]===
: I really don't understand this line of argument if I'm being honest. They're series that readers may be interested in, no matter whether they're classed as spin-offs or not. I also feel that spin-off is a much looser term than you seem to use it as. These are series, outside of the franchises undebatable main series (the TV show), that are still part of the franchise. This is, in my mind, a spin-off. But, whether they're spin-offs or not, I still feel they warrant inclusion here as they're things that fit in naturally that readers may want to find out about or use as a place to dive a little deeper into ''Doctor Who'', outside of the main show. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:35, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
'''Score: '''1
*[[User:Littlblueyes|Littlblueyes]]


===[[Andrew Hayden-Smith]]===
::But this approach means that every separate Big Finish series should get a circle. Or that every different comics run should. Or even more video games. So there's a line somewhere. These specific ones are ones that have reasons not to be there - TLV in particular was ''not'' billed as a series, but as a single story. Doom's Day was billed as both, to be fair, but it's so similar to TLV that I'm treating it the same. It's a multimedia event that is part of other things we already list. And TAG was billed as part of S5. Hence why those ''in particular'' shouldn't be there. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
'''Score: '''2


*[[User:Azes13|Azes13]]
I specifically ended up choosing the term "Expanded media" for that section. Nothing that is listed there is not "expanded media" - and I think Doom's Day justifies being where it is because it is a series of stories and is currently running. When it ends, we'll take it off the main page and replace it with something else. We might swap it with BBC Books or something. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 21:17, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerine Duel]]


==Wikia Blogs==
: The idea that every BF series should get a circle, and every comic run should... is, frankly, just silly and taking things to the extremes. I'd say Doom's Day warrants its place, by virtue of being current and ongoing, and a player in the 60th anniversary celebrations. TLV and the Adventure Games are more debatable, I agree, but I'd say the Adventure Games are good because it's nice to have /some/ gaming content on the front page (although maybe a more recent game release would be better suited in this case?)


This wiki is included in our new [[w:Wikia Blogs|Wikia Blogs]] feature. To get involved, just add snippets of this wiki's best articles to [[MediaWiki:Blog snippet]] each day and that content will appear on the [http://blogs.wikia.com/tv/ Wikia TV Blog]. Please see [[w:c:inside:Wiki to blog|Wiki to blog]] for an introduction and [[w:Wikia Blogs|Wikia Blogs]] for a list of wikis involved in this. [[w:User:Angela|Angela]] <sup>[[User talk:Angela|talk]]</sup> 00:53, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
: We can argue what's warranted til the end of the universe, and a line has to be drawn somewhere, but we can't just argue indefinitely or do monthly polls. It's also not easy whatsoever to draw up rules or criteria because Doctor Who is so vast and ever-changing, with hundreds of spin-offs and expanded media content. The whole "step back in time" section is so subjective - what's the alternative other than nuking it from the homepage? Maybe a "Randomiser" whereby we select 20 things and we highlight two or three of those things every couple of months? Even that would have its issues. I'm not sure there is a clean solution to this one. But, equally, I don't see the harm in having TLV and Adventure Games etc. on there too?


==Doctor Who Fanon==
: BF ranges shouldn't get their own circles because they fall under Big Finish, which has its own circle. However, Reeltime and BBV are seperate entities, as is TLV, as is Virgin Books, etc. So I feel like they all warrant inclusion for that. I think the section is fine as it is - and we can swap things out as time goes on, depending on what gets released and what happens in the future. Noting it as "expanded media" is also a good call, to avoid endless arguments about what defines a 'spin off'. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 11:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


Could someone please make an appropriate link to the Doctor Who Fanon wiki? I tried, but couldnt. Me and an IP are the only ones editing it. Thanxs The evil dudeArnie 15:15, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
== Saturation ==
Okay, so this is a big thing. I personally have long petitioned for us to abandon the whole "monochrome until you hover over it" thing. I think it's a very bland look, and generally I think the whole "everything has to be blue, yellow, or grey" thing is very 2017. I personally think our landing would look a lot better if the images were naturally in full color and then perhaps there was a white glow when hovering over images. Sort of like [[w:c:doctorwhofanon]]. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 16:44, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


::I agree with having the pictures on colour, the monochrome look is slightly bland. [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]]  19:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


:When there is an appropriate place to put a link there will be one. But currently I don't think having a Fanon / Fan fiction link on the front/main page is a good idea. It could open up various biases, and the 'Fan Fiction' idea doesn't quite fit in with the whole idea of the TARDIS wiki. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 15:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
:::If it were up to me, I'd change the whole yellow aesthetic on the homepage, but I understand it's in-keeping with the theme/look of the rest of the Wiki, so fair enough. But I'm also in agreement - let's have bright colours please. It looks so washed out and unappealing as it is right now, IMO. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 20:04, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


--[[User:Colleyd|Colleyd]] 15:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
:::: I'm open to removing it, although I'd like a few more opinions before doing so. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


== GNU FDL/WIkia Banner Problem? ==
Strongly disagree for the reasons discussed before. Too many visual stimuli. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:19, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


Has anyone else had the problem of the Wikia copyright banner (The one with the GNU FDL Free Doc logo) showing up smack dab in the middle of the main page? I've tried accessing the site from 3 different computers and get the same results each time, the banner showing up right underneath the 2nd Doctor image. As I type this, it's right under the text box, above the "Do not submit copyright images.. ect." line. --[[User:Colleyd|Colleyd]] 16:39, 20 December 2007 (UTC)Woof.
: I understand your perspective here, but I think it's worse to have too little visual stimuli, which is what we currently have. Visual stimuli is good! It's what inspires people to look at things and click on them. If the thumbnails on YouTube were all in black-and-white, the algorithm would collapse and the site would run out of money in a fortnight. There's no point in having a bunch of "please click on this" buttons if they're all drab and indistinguishable at a glance. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 21:15, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


:I've gone through the various different templates, but can't find the specific one you're talking about, can you give a link to show the specific template you're talking about. Thanks. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 11:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
:: One thing I love about Doctor Who in general is how 'colourful' and vibrant and loud it is. Colour would make the main page so much more visually interesting. You can still retain a simple design, but use colour. Do any other Wikis use the 'washed out' desaturated look we currently have, and do they really look as exciting or as interesting as those which use colours? I'm unconvinced.  


::[http://www.solfire.com/~colleyd/banneryo.jpg I circled what I'm talking about here]. I've checked at other wikia sites, and this seems to be the only one doing it, at least on my side.--[[User:Colleyd|Colleyd]] 15:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)Woof.
:: Even the official website uses a whole range of colour - https://www.doctorwho.tv/characters - and everything pops. It's just so much more attractive to the eye, IMO. You want your website to be colourful and visually popping, surely. We want people to get lost in links and clicking on stuff, opening the Wiki across multiple tabs, etc. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 21:50, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


:Well I see what you're talking about, but not what is happening. I've loaded the site up in Firefox and Safari and no problems with either. If there is a problem it would be with wikia itself rather than this site all the stuff under the yellow line is under wikia's auspices. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 15:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
:::The issue is about ''how much visual information is present''. We've just radically upped it. You want to do so again. The pictures chosen actually have a lot of visual content - it's pretty overwhelming for me when they're all on screen at once. Now, my experience is not universal, and I use a desktop, which isn't standard. But I'm very hesitant to increase it even more. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)


::Have you tried changing all of your preferences? Perhaps the Skin? -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 16:21, 21 December 2007 (UTC)>-
:: I suggested borders around the images, because I think that might be a good way of balancing visual consistency with interest. If those links – I also had the roundels two sections down in mind – were full-colour images with thick gold frames (or whatever accent colour), they would be separated a bit more, so it doesn't look like they're trying to be a contiguous whole, but they'd look harmonious and intentional. Like, if we just made the images in the sidebar boxes full colour (which I definitely think should be done), the buffer of the solid gold box means they wouldn't clash with anything, so I'm proposing a lower-key version of the same principle be applied elsewhere. [[User:Starkidsoph|Starkidsoph]] [[User talk:Starkidsoph|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


:::That seems to have elliminated the problem all together actually. None of the other skins appear to have that style of wikia banner on them. None of the other skins seem to have the banner ads on them either, so I'm wondering if that might've been the cause of the problem. Either way, problem solved on this side!--Colleyd 17:03, 21 December 2007 (UTC)Woof.
: Well, personally I just don't see the landing as it currently is as overwhelming. It's, at worst, just whelming. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 02:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


::::There, that worked out nicely. -<[[User:Azes13|Azes13]] 19:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)>-
::I'm not entirely sure how to respond to that. It's trivial that everyone will react to different amounts of visual stimuli in different ways. As it stands the images are just scaled down versions of images that were designed for a much larger scale, with ''additional detail added'' (the titles). They have a ton of information present for someone who might have a difficult time filtering that info out. Adding color compounds that problem. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:39, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


==Stories categories==
:::I'm sorry but I fundamentally disagree. Removing the color makes the issue much, much worse! At a distance and thumbnail level, without color all those circles are just grey lifeless blobs. Adding color gives a sense of contrast which makes them easier to discern - I simply can not comprehend the argument that adding color removes details. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 03:43, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


The first category link on the main page used to point to [[:Category:Television_stories|Television stories]]. It was changed about a year ago, and now points to [[:Category:Doctor Who stories|Doctor Who stories]] -- an odd category that doesn't actually include a link to the TV stories category. I clicked on it and expected to see "An Unearthly Child" and "Genesis of the Daleks" -- and instead, I saw categories for comic strip stories and parodies.
::::It's not about ''distinguishing'' the different circles, it's that there is strictly less ''information'' contained. This is trivially true. Adding more information makes it more likely to ''overwhelm'' people who have difficulties filtering out visual noise. See [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5179595/ here] for more, we want to avoid bright colors in particular. The lack of vibrancy is a selling point! [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 05:18, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


I think for new readers, the most appealing thing would be to link to the Television stories category. That's what folks are probably looking for when they first come to the wiki. Is it okay to change the link back to Television stories? -- [[User:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue">Danny</font>]] ([[User talk:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue" size="1">talk</font>]]) 20:28, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
The lack of vibrancy isn't a selling point. It's dull, it's all just washed out and blends into the background. As I said before - do any other Wikis use the 'washed out' desaturated look we currently have, and do they really look as exciting or as interesting as those which use colours? I'm unconvinced. I mean, contrasty black and white would be one thing (and I'd argue, better) - but the washed out yellow is just horrible to look at, IMO.  — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 10:46, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


:Either that or it should point to [[:Category:Stories]] which has category links out to all stories including the TV stories. This wiki does cover all of Doctor Who, so I guess people might be coming for the TV stories, but then might not. The television stories category only has one catgeory within; [[:Category:Television stories by Doctor]] so if you wanted to go the route of directing to the TV stories then [[List of Doctor Who television stories]] would probably be the best bet. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 01:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
: I also think my issue with the main page more generally is the sheer amount of yellow. The images look so washed out and ugly to my eye because everything's yellow - their filter, the sidebars, the titles, etc. Maybe simply tweaking the opacity of the images would help, so they're not /so/ faded into yellow - and changing titles (eg. Explore the Universe) to blue (eg. #456291) would help define sections of the main page more and therefore look overall easier on the eye? (All subjective ofc.) — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 11:12, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


::Yeah, that list page would work, or the Television stories by Doctor category. We could also add a few more items to the box on the main page, and split it out -- maybe Television stories, Novels, Audio plays, Comic strip stories? -- [[User:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue">Danny</font>]] ([[User talk:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue" size="1">talk</font>]]) 18:31, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
I like the hover-over effect, and don't mind the desaturated look. However, the desaturation and ''brightness reduction'' combined is a bit too much, imo (I'm aware that the brightness reduction is just caused by the reduced opacity, but still). Would be curious what it would look like with just the brightness reduction, or with just the desaturation. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me"></span>]] 12:19, 28 June 2023 (UTC)


== Recent Adventures ==
: Anyone want to implement any of these for a trial period, see how it goes? [[User:Starkidsoph|Starkidsoph]] [[User talk:Starkidsoph|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:00, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Since we've added a section for Torchwood to the Recent Adventures box on the Main Page, should we add one for the Sarah Jane Adventures as well? (And, when it starts airing, the K-9 Adventures series?) --Colleyd 22:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)Woof.


:''Sarah Jane Adventures'' belongs too, yes. while on the subject, could someone please remove the ''Short Trips: Dalek Empire''? that came out a loooong time ago, before Christmas 2007. it doesn't count as a "recent" adventure any more. (I would fear messing up if I attempted to fix it myself.) the [[Torchwood]] entry looks great on the right, though. everything looks so blue. it matches the Wiki logo. -- Stardizzy (not logged in) --[[User:66.31.44.71|66.31.44.71]] 00:29, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:: I'm open to that. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 06:20, 4 July 2023 (UTC)


::I knew I was forgetting something when I included Torchwood! I'll add in SJA soon and replace the Dalek Empire Short Story with the most recent release some time soon. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 02:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::: What if, for let's say a week or two, we switch all the images to being full-colored, with a white glow when you hover over them. Then, if people like that, we'll keep it. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 15:41, 4 July 2023 (UTC)


:::I wouldn't add SJA in Recent Adventures, just because it stopped airing last summer or autumn which I would not consider recent, IMO. when SJA season 2 starts up, it would most certainly belong. Stardizzy --[[User:66.31.44.71|66.31.44.71]] 02:27, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::: Count me in. Anything has to be better than the current washed out page. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 17:48, 12 July 2023 (UTC)


::::Ah well, I've added it, it makes a more balanced table of 8 rather than the seven that were there. It also allows for easy access to all the ''current'' adventures. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 05:10, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
::::: I'll trial it for a few days. Any feedback anyone can give on this would be very appreciated. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:24, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


Now that the Short Trips are ending, shouldn't they be replaced by something else in the Recent Adventures section, like the Companion Chronicles for example? --[[User:Rmdbutler|Rmdbutler]] 03:03, 27 May 2009 (GMT)
As stated, I think this is actively harmful to those with difficulty processing too much information. (And have cited articles to this effect!) But at this point I think people have decided to disregard this. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:32, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


==Renaming the Main Page==
:I am in complete agreement with the removal of the filter. I never liked it, and never understood why it was put there. The filter can look good in certain circumstances. On this wiki though, it was just hideous. [[User:Danniesen|Danniesen]] [[User talk:Danniesen|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:23, 13 July 2023 (UTC)


I have a suggestion about the Main Page that would help this wiki to show up higher on Google. Google pays a lot of attention to the title of a page in search results -- if you do any Google search, you'll see that the top results have the search term in the page title. We want people to find this wiki when they search for "doctor who" -- but unfortunately, the wiki default of "Main Page" doesn't help the search results at all.
:: I think the colours are a huge improvement, although I like [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]]'s idea of something to highlight when you mouse over a link. I also do still think the top cast-and-crew section could be more "presented" – the images don't really look like they were created or chosen to go together, which in itself is fine, but maybe the effect of just being right up against each other isn't so great. In general I don't find it overwhelming at all, but I'm perfectly willing to accept that some people might – though [[User:Najawin|Najawin]], I couldn't see anything in the study you linked discussing the effects of many colours together or other visual busyness? It seemed to just be looking at preferences for particular individual colours, and intensity within those. Do you personally experience these problems with the new homepage design, or were you speaking more generally? [[User:Starkidsoph|Starkidsoph]] [[User talk:Starkidsoph|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 01:08, 14 July 2023 (UTC)


Right now, when you [http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22doctor+who%22&btnG=Search search for "doctor who"], this wiki comes up around #92. Ideally, we want people to search for "doctor who" and see this wiki in the top ten -- certainly, it should be above old, worn-out pages like [http://nitro9.earth.uni.edu/doctor/homepage.html Nitro-9] (#11) or [http://www.drwhoguide.com/ the Doctor Who Guide] (#13). Those are coming up way above this wiki because they've got "Doctor Who" in the page title, and the wiki doesn't.
:::That study was specifically in reference to people talking about how they thought it was wonderful how bright and vibrant our franchise was and that we should show it. The study actively refutes this idea. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)


So I'd like to suggest moving the main page to "Doctor Who Wiki". What do you guys think? -- [[User:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue">Danny</font>]] ([[User talk:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue" size="1">talk</font>]]) 20:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
:::: If anything, doesn't this study suggest that our home page only being yellow/sepia is problematic due to yellow being an issue for children with ASD? [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 17:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


:What really needs be done is to change the title text to something like "Main Page - Tardis - A Doctor Who wiki", similar to what [[memoryalpha:|Memory Alpha]] has done with "Portal:Main - Memory Alpha, a Star Trek wiki" -- [[User:Sulfur|Sulfur]] 01:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
If all you read is the headline, sure. Our "yellow" isn't actually ''that'' similar to what they used in their experiment. They used #F1D50B. Ours is less bright and less saturated. (It's technically more luminous, which is an interesting nuance, but the weirdness of HSB vs HSL is what it is.) Much of the colors we've now forced people to see are quite bright. See also:
: It is well known that our eyes are provided with three different types of cone cells for color perception, L, M, and S, which correspond to the perception of red, green, and blue light, respectively. When yellow is perceived, however, both L and M must be involved. The perception of yellow should thus be the most heavily sensory-loaded of the perception of any type of color. Its perception is bearable for TD children, but could be over-loaded for children with ASD whose sensitivity to sensory stimulation is enhanced.
So rapid shifting between these cones, which, again, we've forced upon them, would be ''even worse''. Would it be better for a different filter to be used other than yellow, such as just grayscale? Perhaps. But in a choice between a single color and a barrage of colors overwhelming someone it's very clear which way the line falls. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:58, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


::It could be '''Doctor Who TARDIS Index File Wiki''', that was we'd get in with more Google searches I'd say (though kinda long as far as a title goes). (On a side note I've always thought the whole Portal:Main thing of the Star Trek wiki looked odd). But '''Doctor Who Wiki''' is a fine title also. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 05:03, 18 February 2008 (UTC)
:Actually having seen the new main page, I will have to say that I agree with Najawin and all the bright colours are a bit overwhelming and in your face and aargh. It's very hard to focus on any one thing or notice what each thing is.  I think I preferred the sepia, to be honest. [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]] 20:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


::The reason Memory Alpha can have "a Star Trek wiki" is because it is outside of the Wikia domain. I don't think that *.wikia.com wikis ''can'' have custom titles on the top bar. {{:User:Ghelæ/sig}} 15:57, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm so glad the sepia urine-stained yellow is gone from the homepage. I do agree that maybe the photos need tweaking or changing - in response to Aquanafrahudy, a compromise could be made if we found photos that complimented each other more when aligned in the grid we have. The photos for Tennant and Tate work well together, for example, since they have the same plain coloured background. Maybe we could work on finding photos where the characters/crew are generally all looking a particular way, or against similar muted/plainish backgrounds, which would reduse the "busy-ness"?


:::Yeah, we can have a custom title. It's just a MediaWiki page that we can change. -- [[User:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue">Danny</font>]] ([[User talk:Toughpigs|<font color="Blue" size="1">talk</font>]]) 22:45, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
I refer again to this site/page - https://www.doctorwho.tv/characters - even though there's a mish mash of colours, generally speaking, lots of the backgrounds are blurry/hazy/simple colours, and this makes the overall 'noise' much lesser, IMO.


== Site navigation stuff ==
Also, the "Step Back in Time" feature feels busier to me not because of the colours but because of how small the circles are and their close proximity. If the grid were changed to be 3 rows of 4, and slightly bigger circles, it'd be clearer.


I would recommend editing [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] to add quick links to the various sections of the site. I've changed [[MediaWiki:Pagetitle]] to "TARDIS Index File, a Doctor Who Wiki" which should show up better in Google results than "Tardis". To change the Main Page of the wiki, you edit [[MediaWiki:Mainpage]].
I prefer colours. But, ''if ''we really had to go back to a filter, I'd much rather use a good blue than the yellow we used to have. [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 21:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


You also appear to be missing [[:Image:Wiki wide.png]] which is the logo that appears on Wikia-designed skins (such as Quartz and Monaco). You can find out more about it on [[wikia:Help:Improving_your_Wikia#Change_the_logo]]. [[w:User:Kirkburn|Kirkburn]] ([[w:User_talk:Kirkburn|talk]]) 17:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
:I'm not sure blue is possible on dark mode? Too similar. But Step Back in Time is the main offender. ''Both'' because of the high level of details in the small circles ''and'' because of the very vibrant colors used. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:53, 15 July 2023 (UTC)


== Doctor Who Toys ==
Hi, just gonna give my two cents - the colourful images work fine, imo. I think a revised colour filter would look better, but it's not a huge issue. However, I take issue with the captions - some of them are now poorly contrasted with the underlying image with the filter being removed, with Murray Gold's icon being the most egregious example: [[File:Murray Gold mismatch.png|thumb|150px]]


Is it possible if I could create a better Dr Who and Primeval toys section
A text glow/drop shadow could work; overlaying a black gradient to the bottoms of images, on which the text sits, may also work.  
--[[User:66.31.44.71|66.31.44.71]] 22:51, 1 March 2008 (UTC)


== Doctor Who Indie Music Track - Blue Box - The Red List ==
(As a side note, I'm really not a big fan of the real-world half of the 'Partners in Crime' section; inevitably, it'll probably always seem like a somewhat arbtitrary collection of subject matters). [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
{{Clear}}


All,
: I've added a drop shadow. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


To coincide with the start of the new series of Doctor Who and to reflect the previous series, the band I play in (The Red List ) have written and recorded an indie track based on the Doctor.
:: While we're at it, can we actually shrink the images? Having them overlap like that looks really confusing, and since there's a gap ''between'' the two rows, it stands there should be a similar gap between images. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 02:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)


The lyrics and premise of the track is based around his loneliness; both from the perspective of being the last timelord and also from losing someone he cared about (ie. Rose).
== Display design ==
Maybe we could use another 'section' on this Talk page for 'display' discussion? In any case, I had 10 minutes earlier so I came up with a very basic grid idea that could look less 'busy' for the homepage. Just a proof of concept, rather than a fully thought-out idea tbf, so feel free to criticise and toss aside if you don't like it! I just used the idea from the top of the homepage where we have a cast/crew grid without using the circles, and wondered if it'd look cleaner. I also added 'links'/titles to the top row, again just to see how it could look. I dunno! (I also struggled to find some images but went with as many as I could that felt 'clean' - although I know this is all subjective.)  
<gallery>
File:Stepbackgrid.png
</gallery>


There's also a Kylie link in there too.
Outing myself as a "light mode" user once again. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 12:34, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


I would appreciate all your comments / feedback, whether good, bad or indifferent.
: I hope no one takes general offense to this, but the top of the home page is the part that needs the ''most'' reworking, I insist that we do not redesign the rest of the page to match it.


So if you are interested then click the link below:
: I know that I designed this part of the landing, but abandoning the circle design for something far more clunky and spacious just ''weeks'' after we picked the motif seems irregular. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 13:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


http://www.myspace.com/theredlist
::No offence taken, OS25. I didn't really think too much about the different shapes. Do you feel that the "Partners in Crime" and "How to Doctor Who" sections need roundels/circles too, to match what's below, and have roundels all the way down? My design of a rectangular grid was just a suggestion to reduce how 'busy' it feels. I love the circles, and I love that they sort of tie into the background/TARDIS aesthetic... but I do think many in a row (and small/squashed together) as with "Step Back in Time" doesn't help matters. Not only do they need representative images but they also have their logos in the designs too, and the tiny circles aren't great. Unless we simply enlarge those circles and have 3 rows of 4? — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 13:58, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


I'm not sure I've done this correctly as it's my first time on one of these pages, so hopefully I've done it correctly, otherwise please amend the post.
:::My alternative suggestion would be to simply keep the design we have now, but remove the respective logos from the circle images and have clickable links below each one (sort of how the current "Partners in Crime" grid does now). That could help reduce the overwhelming 'busy' aspect of those particular circles. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 14:00, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


Enjoy, hopefully... Blue Box by The Red List
:::: Well, no offense to you, but I think every idea you're suggesting here would make the page ''more'' busy ''less'' organized and ''more'' overwhelming. There is no tenant of graphic design that says you can only use one kind of shape. If anything, in the future we can talk about making the "cast/crew" module less tall to fit the rest, but stretching out the rest of the page isn't going to fix anything. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 14:06, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


Thanks,
::::: Yeah, forget the proposal I made above with the rectangle design. We agree on this. All I'm getting at is that "Step Back in Time" feels busier than the modules above it because it has 2 rows of 6 roundels - thus they are smaller, more cramped, and is more visually messy (IMO) than the preceeding modules. All I'm suggesting is we simply bump 4 of the roundels on to another row, meaning we can make them all slightly bigger (akin to modules above) and make the images more visible at a glance. Even just comparing the "Rabbit Hole" module to "Step Back in Time" - the former is less overwhelmingly busy because it has larger circles and the detail can be seen more clearly, and that's simply by having 5 roundels per row instead of 6. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 14:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


Daz
:::::: If an admin agrees with this, I'm fine to test it out. Step Back in Time was the section I spent the least time perfecting because it was mostly a test before it was suddenly on the landing. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 14:31, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


== Quote of the Day ==
::::::: I'll give it a try. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


I've been thinking of a "Quote of the Day" to go on the Main Page. On Doctor Who, funny or weird things are said, and we could vote for one to go on the Main Page every day. Opinions? [[User:Darth Oompa|Darth Oompa]] 19:49, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
:::::::: Just seen the "Step Back in Time" circles now spread to 3 rows of 4 and already I think it's a massive improvement. Still quite colourful but more readable at a glance. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 15:03, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


:It's possible, but I'm not sure we have enough (interested) users for it to be feasible. The thing about having a Quote of the Day is that there needs to be a new quote ready for every day. {{:User:Ghelæ/sig}} 19:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Still has many of the same issues for me. That section is better, but not good. And while Step Back in Time was the worst offender, Further Down the Rabbit Hole, Alice? has similar issues. There's slightly less visual noise, but there's still a lot. And the color issue is still an issue. I think part of the problem is that we've forced everything into this area and so there's just ''so much'' visual information that you have to tone it down in some way, either by removing color, or by making it less dense, like with the large rectangle idea.


Then how about a Quote of the Week? That gives plenty of time. [[User:Darth Oompa|Darth Oompa]] 00:59, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
I would agree with OS25 that there's fundamentally no need to switch to rectangles and that I wouldn't mind, in principle, a change to the top section of the main page. It's the content that's there that I'm concerned about, not the specific aesthetics. I mocked it up super quickly, it's obviously rough. (With that said, I prefer minimalism and don't, personally, like the circle design, but this is my personal preference and I don't really care that much. I don't think the main page aesthetics should be dictated by personal preferences but instead by thinking about how to welcome new users. So it's half a dozen of one, six of the other.) [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC)


:That's more feasible. We'll need comments from other users. Perhaps you should ask in the [[Forum:Panopticon|Panopticon]], where more people may visit. {{:User:Ghelæ/sig}} 14:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
== Cast/Crew section images ==


My own favorite Doctor Who quote: "Just once I'd like the meet an alien menace that ISN'T immune to bullets" Brig Lethbridge-Stewart
Might I suggest that the brand new promo photos that just got released ([https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1681340567882547217 Tate], [https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/1681348114005868576 Tennant], etc.) be used for the Cast/Crew section at the top of the homepage? I know we don't typically use promo art but they are, IMO, really beautiful and would really pop! Plus, they have a similar background so they'd all look good in a grid. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 18:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
:My view on this is the same as above, bright colors are not a selling point but instead something that should be seen as disqualifying. The pictures actively hurt my eyes. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:23, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
::We can always desaturate them if we like the composition and recency but are put out by the vibranc! [[User:Scrooge MacDuck|'''Scrooge MacDuck''']] [[User_talk:Scrooge MacDuck|⊕]] 18:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


== Battlestar Galactica References in Doctor Who ==
::: Desaturating them slightly would work. I just think we'd be sort of mad not to use them. They pop, they're as recent as can be, and promote all of this year's specials. Plus, they have a nice style/consistency to the art. (When it comes to Wikis, I often see new official material being used, except on ours. It'd be a shame not to use them in some capacity.) — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 19:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


I'm trying to find if there is at least one reference in any of the ''Doctor Who'' novels or audio adventures. So far all I have turned up is a thread on [[Outpost Gallifrey]]'s discussion forum. [http://doctorwhoforum.com/showthread.php?t=199160] Any pointers?--23:10, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Desaturating images can go a long way. Just something I threw together in a few minutes, along with the roundel/circle theme the rest of the homepage has.
<gallery>File:Roundelscast.png</gallery>


==Funny for Money==
— [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 22:24, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Since we've listed mini-episodes before in the Recent Episodes section, we should have Funny for Money under SJA, so have added it. We should try and get a screen capture rather than a publicity shot, though. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 14:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)


== Claire Bloom to star in Doctor Who. ==
: Ooh, I ''love'' that. Only thing, I don't think Ruby's meant to be in the specials – any chance they might release an image in this style for Rose, or anyone else who will be? Linking to an article that can't really have any information in it yet might not be the best move. [[User:Starkidsoph|Starkidsoph]] [[User talk:Starkidsoph|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:52, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/doctor-who/5240633/Claire-Bloom-to-star-as-mother-of-Doctor-Who.html Source]
::Sorry, 14 and Donna still fundamentally give me a headache. It's not the saturation so much as the presence of bright pink. I do like the other two for after the 60th! But we probably shouldn't have them up yet, since we can't make pages for them. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:46, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


The Telegraph is confirming that actress Claire Bloom will star was The Doctor's Mother in his final outing. Someone should probably post this on the front page. [[User:Dposse|dposse]] 22:29, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Starkidsoph, I doubt we'll get any more of these - unless they opt to do one for NPH or something. Seems to be limited to the main 4 characters, all of whom are in the specials this year (counting Christmas as a special there). Of course, we could just use the 14/Donna ones for now (and link to real world David Tennant and Tate underneath).


:No it belongs on the 2009 Specials page, rumours section. Just because the Telegraph confirmed it, doesnt mean that it is exactly true [[User:Bigshowbower|Bigshowbower]] 04:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
:::Najawin, fair points. I could make edits of these that removes the vortex background completely, if that'd help. Would make them much more palatable, maybe? I mean, we know Ncuti appears in the 60th in some capacity (thanks to the trailer) but you're right that it probably should just be Tennant and Tate on the homepage (unless we have an extra little "Materialising this Christmas" box with graphics of Ncuti and Millie in just to advertise the rest of 2023 - it's already widely publicised that they're coming soon, so why not have them on the homepage somewhere, if we can do something slightly different? I'm not against leaving them off the homepage completely though, if there's a preference or consensus for that! — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 10:27, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
::Why? The Telegraph isn't exactly a tabloid, is it? [[User:Dposse|dposse]] 02:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a rumour and it belongs in the rumours section, it is the policy of this wiki
::::That still doesn't answer my question. Try again. [[User:Dposse|dposse]] 17:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
:::::a) Don't be so rude. b) The Telegraph is reporting she is in the special, not confirming it. As it says in the article itself "A BBC spokesman declined to comment." Until the BBC itself confirms her casting, it is still a rumour. [[User:Rmdbutler|Rmdbutler]] 03:00, 27 May 2009 (GMT)


== K9 ==
<gallery>File:Tntcircles.png</gallery>
— [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 10:44, 19 July 2023 (UTC)


I think we should make a K9 section on the new releases section-thing. [[User:Bigredrabbit|Bigredrabbit]] 07:57, November 3, 2009 (UTC)
I really love these mock-ups. I think the white backgrounds might be a good idea just for clarity at a thumbnail level, but I could go either way. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 14:24, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
:Already on it, just trying to work out some spacing and alignment issues. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 01:13, November 4, 2009 (UTC)
::I don't like it :S [[User:DuduDoctor|DuduDoctor]] 11:52, November 4, 2009 (UTC)
:::What don't you like? --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 13:33, November 4, 2009 (UTC)
::::Well, there are too many things and the pictures are small. [[User:DuduDoctor|DuduDoctor]] 14:39, November 4, 2009 (UTC)
:::::Prior to changing it there were 8 images/links split up across 2 rows, now there are 10 images/links split across three rows. Currently I think it makes more sense with all the TV shows on the top row, the second row has audio based stuff and the third is prose/comic based stuff. I've edited the image sizing slightly to increase the image sizing of the TV story images while still keeping it all more or less aligned. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 14:51, November 4, 2009 (UTC)
::::::For my take, I like the the three row format, with one minor issue. The headers in rows two and three are so close to the Episode/Audio titles of the row above that it makes it a little hard to distinguish the division between the rows. --[[User:Raukodraug|Raukodraug]] 20:10, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Well, I noticed that last night, but finally got back to make a comment today and hadn't noticed that the page has been changed back to the two row style... hmmm. --[[User:Raukodraug|Raukodraug]] 20:12, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
::::::::I think it just needs to feature Doctor Who, Torchwood, The Sarah Jane Adventures and all of the prose/audio/comic/whatever that is currently being released. [[User:Bigredrabbit|Bigredrabbit]] 21:25, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::Also the K-9 TV show [[User:Bigredrabbit|Bigredrabbit]] 21:25, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
::::::::::I'll also have a look t the spacing of the rows. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 07:47, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::I don't think it should be on, as it is not part of Doctor who continuity. Mini Mitch 18:15, November 8, 2009(UTC)
:::::::::::: "Welcome to the TARDIS Index File, a Doctor Who Wiki that anyone can edit. We cover all the spin-off series, too!". From the front page. [[User:Bigshowbower|Bigshowbower]] 04:36, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
:::::::::::: How about a K9 Wiki? K9 probably isn't canon, but still has quite a few ''Who'' fans watching it. [[User:BlueDalek|BlueDalek]] 17:54, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::
:::::::::::: Well, if that's the conclusion you jump to: http://k-9.wikia.com [[User:BlueDalek|BlueDalek]] 17:54, June 1, 2010 (UTC)


== New Magazine Releases ==
:I've no issue with those. Fundamentally I don't really see how the graphic you're suggesting solves the issue, we can't have pages for the two characters; people might try to click on them and go nowhere. I think it's confusing tbh. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:24, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
The Magazine section in the new releases is not being updated cyurrenlty we are on issue 414 and it says the latest new release is 412. Plus next Thursday Issue 415 will be released.. --Catkind121 10:23, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
:Done, updated image and comic link to 414. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 11:44, November 7, 2009 (UTC)
::Issue 415 has been released. --Catkind121 11:46, November 17, 2009 (UTC)


== 21 21 21 21 21 21 ==
If we wanted Ncuti and Millie on the homepage, their graphics could temporarily link to the Series 14 page as a sort of compromise til later in the year? Otherwise, we could stick to just Tennant and Tate. I gotta say I prefer the white background mock-ups I made too - easier on the eye, less 'noisy' without the bright pinks, and still clear when scaled down. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 14:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)


COD is something they have on a pokemon wiki called Bulbapedia. Check it out. If we called get COD on this wiki it'd be a good idea. --[[User:Lordandmaster| Idiot's page]] [[User talk: Lordandmaster|Future ruler of the world's talk]] 13:12, December 17, 2009 (UTC)
: A very quick mock-up of how the current "Partners in Crime" module could look if we used white background circles as the design template.


:COD?
<gallery>File:Tntcircles1.png</gallery>— [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
:Bulbapedia seems, according to the Pokemon wiki's page to be a competing wiki hosted by elsewhere. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 13:25, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


Cod is what you call one-time characters. Just check it up. [[User:Lordandmaster|Idiot's page]] [[User talk: Lordandmaster|Future ruler of the world's talk]] 19:40, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
:: Those white background images look fine, but I doubt committing to that aesthetic would be practical in the long-term. You’d always need someone with Photoshop experience to do cut-outs, or rely on existing .pngs. Not that that would be prohibitively difficult, it’s doable. But the upkeep of the front page should probably be kept as simple a task as possible, imo. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:01, 19 July 2023 (UTC)


Here's the link to COD. [http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/COD]. Read some of it and consider adding a page on it.
:::Personally, I'd just use four I showed above, full colour but slightly desaturated, but I made these just as a concept. You're right though, TGG, that it could be a lot of work to manually edit photos every time we decide to change them if we implemented the 'cut out' design. I guess some people just won't ever be happy, and we can't please everyone. Just not sure what the compromise is. (I guess just opting not to use these images, which would be a shame IMO.) I'll dip for a while and wait on other people to chime in with opinions :) — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 21:08, 19 July 2023 (UTC)


== Mysterious Time Lady is Donna. ==
::::I think differentiating between characters and real-world creatives is pretty important and the layout itself doesn't make that clear enough, so I would maybe prefer some sort of background on 14 and Donna still? The white looks really good and clean, I think it's an excellent solution for making the real-people images more harmonious. [[User:Starkidsoph|Starkidsoph]] [[User talk:Starkidsoph|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 11:50, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


Clue as such suggested when Wilf questions the Doctor who the mysterious woman was, and the Doctor turns his sight to Donna in the wedding dress, suggesting his idea.
::::: Dipping back in a mo - the only idea I have to differentiate them is to keep the vortex background behind 14/Donna, but have the vortex background black and white and then the actual characters in colour? Would require editing though, and would be a nuisance if we needed to keep changing things. (Although once Ncuti and Millie are settled in, I imagine the homepage won't change too much if the casting remains consistent for a while.) — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 13:00, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


Again, I have zero issues with the blue used for Gatwa and Gibson. But that pink is exactly the sort of thing we should be avoiding, regardless of people's preferences. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:23, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


==New Home Page==
:Why is the pink worse than the blue? Is it because blue is a more calming colour? [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]] 16:27, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Ready for the new series, I have designed a new home page [[User:Rbfskywalker/New Home|here]], what do you think? --[[User:Rbfskywalker|Rbfskywalker]] 12:32, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


:I think you may get more responses if you posted a topic on the [[Forum:Panopticon]]. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 12:45, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
:: I like the pink and the blue. Both are fine, no need to overthink it. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


== Help!!! ==
::: Same, TGG. It feels a bit arbitrary to not use them because one person doesn't like the colour. I think the desaturated versions look great. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 17:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


Hi.I'm new here and I tried to update the Big Finish Companion Chronicles place in the main page.I managed to write the name of the play(Ringpullworld) but I couldn't insert the picture.I will upload it to the Ringpullworld page so if anybody could insert the picture,I would appreciate it.Thank you!!!
::::I'm trying not to be rude here, but it's deeply misleading to suggest that my objection is that I ''dislike'' the color. Whereas your reason has ''always'' been personal preference. See, again, [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5179595/ the study I linked]. Brightness is the relevant metric, not saturation. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


:Fixed, I reverted your previous edit, then re-added the image and link. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 13:21, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
:::::Aren't the pink and the blue around the same level of brightness? And did the desaturation make much of a difference, in your opinion, or did you think it was just as bad? [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]] 17:58, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


== Disambig link ==
Quick mock-up of how grey vortex background could work (sorry about the white, I couldn't get it to work otherwise): <gallery>File:Grey-circles-doctordonna.jpg</gallery>
Thoughts? [[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: serif; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|📢]]  18:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


Please change the link for The End of Time to "The End of Time (TV story)" - It currently goes to the disambig page. [[Special:Contributions/188.221.79.22|188.221.79.22]] 13:30, January 28, 2010 (UTC)
: I do like that totally desaturated grey look, it’s an interesting aesthetic. That or the partly desaturated look would work.


: Najawin, there’s nothing wrong with people having preferences. I also don’t think a scientific paper should dictate the limits of an aesthetic choice (this is coming from someone with ASC, by the way). It just seems like you’re trying to form an empirical basis as to why it ''has'' to be a certain way. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:07, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


:From what I can see, this has now been done. [[User:Dragoonx303|&lt;b&gt;&#91;&#91;:User:Dragoon&#124;Dragoon&#93;&#93; &lt;/b&gt;&lt;small&gt;(&#91;&#91;:User_talk:Dragoon&#124;Talk&#93;&#93;)&lt;/small&gt;]] 20:41, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
::The paper ''also'' distinguishes between pink and blue. Desaturation was better, but still bad, imo. But I do want to clarify that ''that'' is an opinion. The specific design principles I'm referencing are not. People can have preferences, nobody denies that. But '''''if all you have are preferences''''', then other metrics trump those. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:01, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


== You've had the place redecorated ==
:::Strong disagree. I dislike this dismissive emphasis on the idea of 'preferences', when people have actually articulated their reasons for liking something, they've given their reasons. It's not as arbitrary as you're suggesting. At most, the worst people have done is plainly concur with earlier points, without making any further comment. Which is fine. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


There's a joke to be made about a study in pink somewhere but it's also the wrong fandom. I guess we just need to hope Doctor Who itself doesn't use too many vibrant pinks in any episodes, otherwise we'll have to rule out potentially lots of images we ever use. Anyway, I guess this could go round in circles.


I guess we could just put a plain colour opacity filter over the top, and go back to a completely washed out look (which I find quite dull and uninteresting personally), but that would then be at odds with the rest of the homepage further down which itself is quite vibrant and colourful.


Starkidsoph mentioned about differentiating between characters and real-world creatives / counterparts, so I've mocked this design up. Admittedly, it's going to be tricky given that the first 2 circles are 14 and Donna, followed by real-world RTD and Bad Wolf (ideally I think we'd have Yasmin Finney and NPH? but we can't make pages for their characters yet so difficult position for now) but I thought maybe the top row could have subtle backgrounds, whilst the bottom row has white backgrounds? (An argument could be made for giving RTD a white background too, so all real-world tabs have the white.) I've also used different promo images for 14/Donna, to deviate away from the discussion regarding harsh colour palettes. Again, just a mock-up I'm throwing out there :)
<gallery>File:Tntcircles2.png</gallery>
— [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 14:06, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
:: when people have actually articulated their reasons for liking something, they've given their reasons
:You mean the fact that it "pops", "is vibrant", and "has bright colors"? These just ''are'' preferences - if general ones.
::Anyway, I guess this could go round in circles. We ''must obey the study'' it seems, so we can't use officially made promotional images, dammit.
:Oh dear lord did anyone say this? Did anyone say "we must obey the study"? No. The issue, as it has been in '''''every discussion''''' relating to design choices, is that if there are non preferential reasons to avoid doing something, whereas the reasons to do it are solely preferential, it loses. Period. Give me non preferential reasons! In your hypothetical the accuracy of our coverage of the episode would be so severely impaired by restricting ourselves that we just couldn't make that determination. But no such condition holds here.
::but that would then be at odds with the rest of the homepage further down which itself is quite vibrant and colourful.
:Yes, as is being discussed above, ''the rest of the page is a problem too.''


I don't like it.
:(To note, while those images are released promotionally, they ''also'' seem to be part of the specials, so I don't think by our standards they're promo images. Not a correction, just making sure everyone is on the same page for this discussion because it actually does matter.) [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 14:27, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


Given that we're now speeding towards November, is there any movement on this discussion? — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 18:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


=== Top of the page distinct modules concept ===


I do! --[[User:Bluebox444|Bluebox444]]
I've had a look at various other TV/film/media Wikis and one thing I've noticed is that some of them have small 'introductions' to main characters or elements. At the moment, with our current design, we simply have 2 little roundels for 14/Donna and their captions stating the name of said characters'' and that's it''. No further info/context. What if we had a small overhaul at the top of the homepage which would always feature the incumbent/current Doctor and companion(s), with some behind the scenes faces just below it?


== Covering... ==
I've mocked up a very basic idea - you have the 2 lead characters, which would always be Doctor and companion, in the current case, Doctor 14 and Donna, along with a very brief sentence which also links to 'the Doctor' generally as well as 14's page and has links to the respective actors. You'd then simply swap this out for Ncuti's Doctor 15 when he arrives, and the same for the Donna 'module' (swap this out for Ruby Sunday when the time comes). If there are ever more companions, just add another 'module' underneath that follows the same design. So when you come to the homepage, you're immediately greeted with the main lead characters of the current show, with a tiny introduction (kept mostly 'in universe' if that's the preference), followed by 4 at most tabs to real-world pages (Bad Wolf could be swapped out if the company ever changes hands - Gold could be swapped out if the composer changes, etc). ''Then ''below is when you get to the "How to Doctor Who" history bits and ''then ''you start exploring the 'Whoniverse' more generally with the spin-off material etc.


"a [[Tardis:About |wiki]] covering [[Doctor Who]], [[Torchwood]],
I also incorporated the roundel image design so it would be in-keeping with the remainder of the page as it stands. I just thought having 2 small modular sections to say "hey here's the current Doctor and who they are!" and "hey this is the current companion" would help differentiate the tabs a bit, before you hit other crew/behind the scenes/IRL creatives.
[[The Sarah Jane Adventures]], and [[K9]]"
<gallery>File:Overhaulconcept.png</gallery>
[[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 14:52, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


Don't we cover the whole franchise and not just the main show and its spin-offs? --[[User:Semian2|Semian2]] 00:16, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
: I like this a lot. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me"></span>]] 17:48, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
:I'm not understanding the distinction you're making here. Perhaps you could suggest some alternate language. Just saying we cover the Doctor Who franchise would imply, to my ear, that we '''don't''' include coverage of the other shows. The ''K9'' show, for instance, isn't in the DW franchise, even though the character nominally is. And there's a question whether ''Torchwood'' will continue to be in the DW universe if it indeed becomes primarily an American show. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 21:18, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
::To me it seems like it doesn't include things like books, magazines, etc. That's basically what I'm getting at --[[User:Semian2|Semian2]] 19:09, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
:::Would you have a particular alternative phraseology to suggest? '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|☎]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 02:17, April 2, 2010 (UTC)


::::It seems straight forward enough, the issue I think is seeing those four things as ''only'' the TV shows. Though Semian2 is right it should say 'we also cover the spin-offs to' or something to that effect linked to [[Doctor Who spin-offs]]. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 04:16, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
::Thanks, Bongo. Kinda just threw the design together but it could work with them contained within a box, or just a simpler 'list', or even have the two side by side. I just liked the concept of having the "Doctor + Companion introductions" right there, impactful, as you arrive on the Wiki, followed by everything else that spins off from them :) Part of the inspiration came from my own experience of visiting Wikis for shows I was new to - it's nice to see on the homepage, at a glance, who the main characters are with a short biog, before delving deeper. Hopefully others like it too, cos I think it'd be a neat feature to implement (regardless of how it's designed). — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 19:28, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


::::::I would suggest that wouldn't be understood by all speakers of English. ''Torchwood'', the TV series, is a spin-off of ''Doctor Who''. Big Finish DW audios aren't a spin-off of ''Doctor Who''. The pages linked decidedly list all the various multimedia ranges. And, um, there are rather large pictures of the BFAs that most browser windows will show at almost any width and heighths without having to press page down. And a simple scroll of the page will make it abundantly clear we cover everything. That was the point of the redesign. I'm not saying no to a word change, though, just that the most common meaning of "spin-off" is a television show that takes characters from a parent show and turns them into the stars of the new show. How about the language, "We cover everything related to DW TW SJA and K9?" The word "everything" could get the linkage you suggest. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1">✍</font>]] 06:45, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
::: I still think that if we're going to have a header for the non-cast, it should be "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 20:19, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


== Aliens/Creatures ==
:::: I'd be open to debating heading titles. I just randomly came up with a phrase for my mock-up tbf; I didn't think too much about that. (I also like the phrase "Pull to Open" which seems fitting.) — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 20:25, 21 July 2023 (UTC)


I was wandering if the wiki had a page were all the villains/aliens were listed, and preferably pictured as I am in need of pictures of them for a photoshop project, I am also looking for the ones from David Tennants era. Birdie94jb 22:55, April 2, 2010 (UTC)
::::: Not to be a downer, but I'm not sure about that, to be honest. I personally feel it's a little overdesigned, and I don't know if it would translate well to the mobile page, either. Though maybe it just needs to go through a few iterations, I'm not sure. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 16:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


:At the top left of the page, click on "Enemies." From there, you can also click to see ones from a specific Doctor's run. Also, see the [http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Races_and_species races and species] page [[User:TweedJacket|TweedJacket]] 00:53, April 27, 2010 (UTC)
:::::: We should not worry about mobile. They see something different. The focus here is making sure that it works on desktop. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 17:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


== New Skin ==
::::::: I designed it so it has the little connecty line from 14 to Donna, etc. but in reality it could literally just be 2 rectangular boxes with a border, one after another. It can be simplified. — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 18:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


Hasn't anyone thought about a new better skin than this generic wiki skin? The Wikia team can do an amazing job in making it look better. ☆<span style="font-family:Algerian;">[[User:Solar Dragon|<font color="green">The</font> <font color="red">Solar</font> <font color="blue">Dragon</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Solar Dragon|<font color="gold">Talk</font>]])</sup></span>☆ 11:13, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
Let me note that I prefer everything being one section, which is why I mocked it up that way, but ''unlike the above'', for me this is ''strictly a preference''. Other people can feel free to do whatever if they disagree. I just have a thing for minimalism. Feel free to change. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me"></span>]] 19:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)


:The blue actually ties quite nicely into the blue of the TARDIS and many of our primary infoboxes. --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 14:44, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
Given that we're now speeding towards November, is there any movement on this discussion? — [[User:FractalDoctor|Fractal Doctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Send a space-time telegraph">@</span>]] 18:28, 19 August 2023 (UTC)


::i agree the blue is fine but how about a background image? The current logo or a picture of the TARIDS will look good. It does in my mind anyway. The white is not so good. ☆<span style="font-family:Algerian;">[[User:Solar Dragon|<font color="green">The</font> <font color="red">Solar</font> <font color="blue">Dragon</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Solar Dragon|<font color="gold">Talk</font>]])</sup></span>☆ 17:39, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
:Maybe it's just me, but I actually think the front page looks pretty good at the moment. One minor thing that bugs me though: I would make the "Welcome to the TARDIS" text a bit smaller, so it fits on one line.
::
::New Skin Ugly. Info Box's look ugly, Added who uploaded photos look ugly. GIVE US THE OLD LOOK BACK [[User:Joshoedit|Joshoedit]] 06:09, October 25, 2010 (UTC)


== New Logo ==
:I have a bit more time on my hands, so I ''might'' be - not 100% promising - able to work on new transmat designs. However, the proposed in-universe transmats, which seemed to have been more or less agreed upon, may require a different approach. I'm unsure if the 'cel-shaded', minimal approach I was exploring would work when applied to character portraits, images of creatures, etc. [[User:TheGreatGabester|TheGreatGabester]] [[User talk:TheGreatGabester|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 20:54, 30 August 2023 (UTC)


I think that the logo is getting a bit dated. Maybe we should make a new logo. [[User:Darkraider09|Darkraider09]] 17:37, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
== Update ==
:I have never really liked that logo. It is a bit retro really. We need to keep up with the times and a new logo. ☆<span style="font-family:Algerian;">[[User:Solar Dragon|<font color="green">The</font> <font color="red">Solar</font> <font color="blue">Dragon</font>]] <sup>([[User talk:Solar Dragon|<font color="gold">Talk</font>]])</sup></span>☆ 17:45, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
Although this may be a little premature, given that ''[[Doctor Who The Official Annual 2024]]'' is technically the explicit EU debuts of the [[Fifteenth Doctor]] and [[Rose Noble]], and the first mention of [[Ruby Sunday]], shouldn't information about them now be added?


::Which is kinda the point, it's a point of identification, the majority of Doctor Who production (the DVDs and BF audios) use the rectangular "Pertwee logo", while the new Doctor Who logo is in the forefront at the moment it may not achieve the instant recognition for everyone. Additionally as far as the main wiki logo goes to fit it into that space we'd need to use the alternate-new Doctor Who logo ([[:File:2010Logo 2Level.jpg]] this one), which has been seen around even less than the new logo (if anywhere). --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 17:53, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
Feels counterintuitive to have a page on Fifteen while the Main Page pretends like he doesn't exist... {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 22:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
::      Maybe, we could do a vote? See which logo is more popular in the community. [[User:Darkraider09|Darkraider09]] 18:35, May 23, 2010 (UTC)


== Tales of the TARDIS ==


Would anyone object to be replacing {{tlx|Mainpage Box Doom}} with {{tlx|Mainpage Box TotT}}?
{{Mainpage Box TotT}}
[[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:20, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


:I would encourage ''discussion'' of the topic in the Forums, but not a vote. (see [[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Community]] for more info). --[[User:Tangerineduel|Tangerineduel]] 11:45, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
: Looks ''fantastic'' to me! All I'd suggest is moving the link from [[Whoniverse]] to [[Whoniverse (BBC iPlayer)]]. {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 18:26, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
:              So, when is it going to be discussed [[User:Darkraider09|Darkraider09]] 23:47, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
:              If we're getting a new logo, can it be completly different to the one we have? If it has changed, it looks the same. [[User:Fallen5|Fallen5]] 08:45, September 26, 2010 (UTC)


== Your wikia is in danger ==
:: Well, the thingy for the "Remembered TARDIS" probably shouldn't link to just "[[The Doctor's TARDIS]]" - the page is ''currently'' at [[The Doctor's TARDIS (Tales of the TARDIS)]], although that's likely to change. I agree with replacing [[Doom's Day (series)|a series fairly few cared about]] with [[Tales of the TARDIS|a series which just released and people will actually give two sods about]], though (i.e. I generally agree with the replacement). [[User:Cookieboy 2005|Cookieboy 2005]] [[User talk:Cookieboy 2005|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:30, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


The wikia staff are planning to impose a mandatory skin on all wikia sites that would disrupt the encyclopedic nature in its basic nature. More info in the following links.
::: I agree with this, for the reasons Cookieboy stated. <u>[[User:Aquanafrahudy|<span style="font-family: Georgia ; color: pink" title="Hallo." > Aquanafrahudy</span>]] [[User talk: Aquanafrahudy|<span title="Talk to me">📢</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Aquanafrahudy|<span title="Stuff I've done">🖊️</span>]] </u> 19:03, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia Your_First_Look_at_the_New_Wikia]
:::: Not linking to [[The Doctor's TARDIS (Tales of the TARDIS)]] was an error that I have fixed. I'm going to go ahead and make the replacement. [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|<span title="talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:08, 3 November 2023 (UTC)


[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Susan_Taylor/Experience_the_new_Wikia Experience_the_new_Wikia]
This is good for now, but the long term goal for that template should be it either being phased out or simply listing the most recent releases in Whoniverse fiction. ''Tales of the TARDIS'' should not be on the home page in, say, 6 months. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 22:37, 8 November 2023 (UTC)


[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Sannse/Important_Updates_on_Wikia%E2%80%99s_New_Look Important_Updates_on_Wikia's_New_Look]
== Doctors Template Ordering ==


[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Wikia%E2%80%99s_new_look_-_FAQ Wikia's_new_look_-_FAQ]
So I've suggested this in the past, and I guess I'll do it again. I think the "'''Who is the Doctor?'''" should be at the top of the right column, not the bottom. It doesn't make sense anywhere else - putting it after "'''There's more than just TV'''" doesn't make any sense, and burying it below some of our most obscure pages doesn't really serve any purpose.


[http://community.wikia.com/wiki/The_new_look_2]
The ideal ordering for those templates is: '''Mainpage Box Doctors''', '''Mainpage Box Random''', '''Mainpage Box Welcome''', '''Mainpage Box TotT''', and then the rest. I know it's weird to put the "welcome" template so late, but if you actually look at its contents, it is setting up the EU templates. It should absolutely not go first. [[User:OttselSpy25|OS25]][[User Talk:OttselSpy25|🤙☎️]] 22:36, 8 November 2023 (UTC)


== Catagory problems ==
:I agree that Doctors should go first. I think Random should go after Welcome though. I think Random follows perfectly fine from Welcome and more often than not will return an EU page. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 23:44, 8 November 2023 (UTC)


All the episodes are now out of order. They have been arranged in aplhabectical order and not broadcast order. How can this be fixed? KLLtR 07:29, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
== Minor updates needed post-''Star Beast'' ==


== Latest DW episode ==
"How to ''Doctor Who''" needs to be modified slightly, as "later this year" for the 60th specials is now out of date; "Further down the rabbit hole" needs ''Doom's Day'' removed since it's no longer "ongoing", or else to have the description altered to remove that stipulation. [[User:Starkidsoph|Starkidsoph]] [[User talk:Starkidsoph|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 00:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)


It needs to be changed, it's beenn almost an hour. [[Special:Contributions/82.40.240.124|82.40.240.124]] 19:42, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
== Post 60th Updates ==


: Oh ... I wasn't logged in, was I (when I wrote the above message) ? -[[User:Sichamousacoricothingmabob|Si]] <small>[[wikipedia:Pig Latin|Iway amway Ichamousacoricothingmabobsay.]]</small> <span class="plainlinks">[http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/user:Sichamousacoricothingmabob/Human_Time_Lords http://images.wikia.com/tardis/images/e/e4/Si_HTL_Seal_Leader.PNG]</span> 19:53, December 25, 2010 (UTC)
Alright everyone, it's time to talk about updating the page to the next iteration. We have dicta as to what the broad strokes of the next main page will look like - a focus on Gatwa and Gibson. But it's really time to hash out the specifics. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:36, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
:One option is to just replace Fourteen/Donna/Tennant/Tate with the relevant figures, but I think that's a mistake, personally. The 60th was all about returning faces, the upcoming era is about the new. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 03:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


== Orange ==
:: Perhaps... but I feel there is a bit of an issue: we'll decorate the home page with images of Gatwa and Gibson in-character, link to the new directors, writers, etc etc, and yet as soon as you access the page, the Wiki kinda has to pretend any information pertaining to unreleased media simply doesn't exist. So you'll go to [[Russell T Davies]], hoping for info about Season 1, and there is nothing in sight except for an extremely short [[Russell T Davies/Spoilers]] subpage.
:: Now, I would suggest doing our own "best of" home page, but realistically it'll take more time to even discuss what to include than it will for ''[[The Church on Ruby Road (TV story)|The Church on Ruby Road]]'' to be broadcast.
:: It's okay for characters like Donna, as her page has substance, yet look at [[Ruby Sunday]]; it is barely even able to use an ''image'' of the character. We're lucky that Annual short story even mentioned Ruby as otherwise we wouldn't even have a page to link to!
:: Is this an issue with the spoiler policy? Yes. Is this the place to discuss changing it? No. But love it or hate it, it absolutely affects the way we create the home page. I think, unfortunately, we may be stuck in a state of limbo induced by remaining Super Duper Spoiler Free, despite the official marketing being no remotely as subtle. {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 03:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


No. Just... no. [[User:DuduDoctor|DuduDoctor]] 19:40, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
:::Or, you know, we can update as soon as the Christmas special is over, fixing that flaw, and just discuss the plans ahead of time. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 04:05, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


I agree, it likes an after image of an explosion at a sunny d factory.[[User:Son of Icthar|Son of Icthar]] 12:30, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
:::: Perhaps, but will the special give us enough content to use? We can try to plan the home page now, but it is hard to say for certain about details such as cast and crew until the episode is broadcast (apart from the obvious people like Gatwa, Gibson, RTD, etc.)
:::: It'll introduce Fifteen and Ruby fully, her mum Carla and grandmother Cherry, who will likely reappear in the Roger Ap Gwilliam episode, but apart from them, what characters do we know ''anything'' about apart from casting?
:::: This isn't even an issue with the spoiler policy here, this is a simple case of "hoe on Earth do we represent, even broadly, a new era we know not so much about?" {{User:Epsilon the Eternal/signature}} 04:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


== Bothered by today's color changes on the main page? ==
Hello, hello. Ooh, this is new. Sort of. Happy bigeneration day. Just wanted to give this a nudge. New fork, new URL, but old Doctor on the homepage. I think it's time we at least switched out the 14th Doctor for the 15th [and DT for NG], and swapped Donna Noble for Ruby Sunday [and CT for MG]. We could also do with adding Ncuti properly into the "Who is the Doctor?" sidebar box. [[User:FractalDoctor|FractalDoctor]] [[User talk:FractalDoctor|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
As we can see from the above comments, at least one editor is already concerned about color changes to home page. These changes are part of a larger effort to finish the transition to the new skin by implementing new, natively-rectangular logos to fit in the space allowed in the so-called "wordmark" in the upper left-hand corner of the page.
:I'll get to porting over my proposal when some of these kinks are straightened out. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:28, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


This new logo had a different blue to the old one, which has then had the knock-on effect of making "blue links" and blue backgrounds that used to be present on the page compete with the blue of the new logo.
::Alright, porting over my thoughts.


The orange is the natural compliment to the blue in the logo, and allows us to only change half the blue links on the page to the "new blue", but of course we're at an early stage of color-matching. By having two types of orange background, it's then possible to have two types of blue link without the eye really noticing it strongly.
::I think we have, in broad strokes, enough to work with here at a very, very basic level, circling back to this. See [[User:Najawin/Sandbox 8]] (second bit) for the basic idea I'm going for here. Kinda. If you look at the first bit, the Partners in Crime approach that we have currently, you'll notice that using the mainpage-box-characters div we have stops pictures from pushing out of a frame at a certain width, it blends them into the next frame. Which you can see on the main page we have currently - there are no gaps between pictures, everything melds seamlessly. If we toy with the max-width parameter and cut the relevant picture in two, we can just blend it back together, the overlap stitching over the gap. (Indeed, if you do this now in a mainpage-box-characters div you get this effect, but the spacing is too tight to be useful imo.) So we can have a landscape shot of Ruby and 15 from TCoRR (I chose that one because I think it works best, but it's up for debate), then have RtD, Gibson and Gatwa, and one other slot below them. I put Bad Wolf as a broad catch all. But it's up for discussion. This is also kinda hard to work with because the main page is displaying things differently than the templates proper, if you look at [[Template:Mainpage Box Friends]]. So it just makes it harder to do all this. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 21:45, 26 February 2024 (UTC)


'''There is no way to easily test these changes, but by doing them live on the main page.''' Sorry, but I'm not prepared to create "mock" versions of all the templates used on the main page just to do color matching.
We now have an airdate, a new trailer on the way, new promo, etc. and our homepage is still showing Tennant and Tate. We're trying to get this Wiki more up to date than the Fandom version, and hopefully get more eyes here, so I think at the very least we need to change the current Tennant/Tate/14/Donna photos. Even if we just swap them out for now, so the homepage at least looks more up to date, and we can figure out actual designs and aesthetics later. × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 11:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)


The main discussion for all this is at [[Forum:New logo or Wordmark]]. Please drop by there to register your suggestions/complaints. '''[[User:CzechOut|<span style="background:blue;color:white">Czech</span><span style="background:red;color:white">Out</span>]]''' [[User talk:CzechOut|]] | [[Special:Contributions/CzechOut|<font size="+1"></font>]] 19:59, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
:My suggestion for updating the text below "Partners in Crime": ''Following the 60th anniversary specials and The Church on Ruby Road in 2023, the TARDIS is now home to the Fifteenth Doctor and Ruby Sunday, as played by Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson respectively. Behind the scenes, various familiar faces are producing the show and you can find out more about them below.'' × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk"></span>]] 13:21, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
:: Done! --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me"></span>]] 15:03, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


I actually quite like the current blue color scheme. It makes Oasis look mildly tolerable, even :) [[User:Styracosaurus Rider|Styracosaurus Rider]] <small> [[User talk:Styracosaurus Rider|Speak to the Rider!]]</small> 15:12, January 21, 2011 (UTC)
::: Thanks Scrooge - looks great. Nice choice to add the "cosmic joyride" tag too :) × [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 15:04, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 
=== Season 1 episode links / current season styling ===
 
With Season 1 about to begin transmitting, would it be worth having a section on the homepage which links directly to [[Season 1 (Doctor Who 2023)|Season 1]], and maybe even links to episodes as they air? My rationale is that a new season, and this soft relaunch, will potentially bring new traffic to the Wiki - viewers old and new - and it could be convenient if the landing page had direct access to the current season as well as links to individual episodes. I know the sidebar has "next series" and "latest episode" but I just think we could shout about them from the main landing page too. Would help the Wiki feel up to date as the season airs in real-time. — [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 22:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 
: I'd like to add to the above, to try and make the homepage more up to date and relevant: with Season 1 about to air, might it be worth updating the 'Topical Pages' section on the sidebar to include current era elements. Suggestions: [[Carla Sunday]], [[UNIT]], [[Flood (The Church on Ruby Road)|Mrs Flood]], [[Melanie Bush]].
 
: I also think we could update the "New to Who?" section - specifically the icons so the "TARDIS" one shows the most recent police box prop and the "sonic screwdriver" icon to show Ncuti's version of the prop. — [[User:Fractal|Fractal]] [[User talk:Fractal|<span title="Talk">•</span>]] 10:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
::Well, we now have a Season 1 link (and even a timer). I imagine we'll update the timer to point to the "next episode" as it progresses. I think Bongolium is still cooking a broader update to the homepage itself. Fair enough on "Topical pages"! --[[User:Scrooge MacDuck|Scrooge MacDuck]] [[User talk:Scrooge MacDuck|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 13:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 
== Icon suggestion(s) ==
I was wondering if I could suggest a new icon or two for the "Step back in time" section? [[User:WaltK|WaltK]] [[User talk:WaltK|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 19:41, 28 March 2024 (UTC)
: What did you have in mind? [[User:Bongolium500|<span title="aka Bongolium500">Bongo50</span>]] [[User talk:Bongolium500|☎]] 13:27, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
[[File:Agent Provacateur tpb.jpg|thumb|Suggested image.]]
:: I think an IDW icon using the first cover from the 2008 series would look really good. As for other possible icons; ''[[Doctor Who Adventures]]''? Also the icon for ''[[Doom's Day (series)|Doom's Day]]'' should probably be moved to this section now too. [[User:WaltK|WaltK]] [[User talk:WaltK|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 22:29, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
::: We can honestly remove ''Doom's Day'' and ''Time Lord Victorious''. [[User:OttselSpy25|OttselSpy25]] [[User talk:OttselSpy25|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 15:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
::::Oh good. I quite agree, I felt at the time they were out of place. [[User:Najawin|Najawin]] [[User talk:Najawin|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 18:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::I will defend their original placement under the logic of "We should be plugging current Whoniverse content" but the intention was always that certain things on the home page would be phased out as new material was released. [[User:OttselSpy25|OttselSpy25]] [[User talk:OttselSpy25|<span title="Talk to me">☎</span>]] 12:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:36, 11 June 2024

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Careful . . . spoilers!

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If you want to talk about other topics, your best bet is to post a new thread in the forums.

General Doctor Who discussion and questions about a single narrative or behind-the-scenes point — where that answer is likely a known fact, like "Who played <role> in <story>?" or "In which issues of DWM will you not find comics?" — are best put to the the Discussions board.

For editing assistance and guidance, please contact an admin.


Transmats

Ironically, it seems to me that the recent forum has sorted out everything but the Transmat design. Effectively, unless someone corrects me, the plan is that my "spin offs" module will link to the relevant pages and not transmats.

With this in mind, it's now time to go back to discussing TGG's transmat design. However, with that comes, in my opinion, discussions of the Transmat space itself. I think we need to really talk about updating this space, as I think it's barely been touched since creation and doesn't serve quite the purpose that it could. As Bongo suggested in his closing post, I'd like to recommend a shift to in-universe transmat topics.

I'd also like to recommend the landing pages be rewritten to favor more heavily new readers (as it stands, some landings read as if they're trying to explain how to edit first and foremost, which I think defeats the purpose). OS25🤙☎️ 20:54, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Agreed on all fronts. Bongo50 20:57, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
Hiya, just to let you guys know: I can't really contribute to the transmat discussion/produce new transmat concepts until partway through August; am very busy with other commitments at the moment. But I'll say this: I don't think there is an especially pressing need to get new transmats figured out just this second. Even just getting the main page up-to-date is a massive improvement. TheGreatGabester 13:58, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I generally think there's no harm in waiting, as you said. At the very least, until August, we can perhaps discuss what we want the Transmat landings to be like. Personally, I have trouble building excitement for them but I do think they need some change. OS25🤙☎️ 20:00, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
Absolutely. No one is obligated to edit, and it gives us time to actually create the transmat landing pages. Bongo50 20:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Adding a new "expanded media" section to the sidebar

As discussed in the closing post of the recent forum, there's enough room on the sidebar for at least one more mini-module. It's been suggested that we either create one about prose fiction or video games. I however would also like to recommend stage plays as a contender - I know it's controversial as they've been historically non-valid, but I think it's a very interesting topic to read articles on. But personally, I'm currently thinking that video games would work the best as there's an interesting history of Doctor Who and gaming.

Also, can I recommend a different ordering for the right column templates? I'm thinking the most logical order is Template:Mainpage Box Doctors, Template:Mainpage Box Random, Template:Mainpage Box Welcome, then the rest. It makes more sense to put the majority TV template first, then the random template, then all of the "not TV" templates in a row. OS25🤙☎️ 21:05, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Does anyone else have thoughts on this? Bongo50 12:14, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I think that ordering would make more sense, yeah. I'm no expert on expanded media, so no opinion really on awarding mini-modules, but I just wanted to say I love the Doom's Day box! Although it misspells "seek" as "seak". (Also, maybe reconsider the comics heading "Stripped for Action"? Apparently it's a reference but I'm not sure it quite conveys the intended meaning...) I would put in a strong word for un-desaturating the images, but that's just my preference in general – I think the monochrome is too visually uninteresting – so I'm willing to shut up about it if everyone else likes the aesthetic. Off topic for this particular thread, but I think borders around the images might be nice for the "Partners in Crime" section, and it really needs to visually separate characters and creatives more clearly: right now it sort of looks like Julie Gardner is playing the role of Russell T Davies. Maybe even a little caption denoting their jobs? Starkidsoph 13:48, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I've made a new section for discussing this. I personally think ending the era of monochrome is earned. Also, I want to voice my opinion that having the "crew" at the top of the page should be a temporary measure only done as we don't have pages for the other characters yet. The moment that the first special airs, I would personally like to have the other leads replace RTD, BW, Julie and MG. OS25🤙☎️ 17:14, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I've fixed the Doom's Day box typo. Thanks for pointing it out. Borders can be added, but I don't see why it's needed if I'm honest. I agree that it would be good to move the crew away when we have more character pages. Bongo50 20:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

I decided to go ahead and create Template:Mainpage Box Games, as I feel confident this is the option that casual readers will find the most interesting. I've added a few just to make the template function, but I encourage everyone to add sections based on games they are passionate about. Short of flash games and the such, I see no reason that most DW games can't be featured in some way in the rotation. OS25🤙☎️ 23:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll probably do a section for The Edge of Reality given I've just played it so it's fresh in my mind. 00:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
I've added it. The placement and order is all open to change. Bongo50 06:20, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Well can we change it then? 😂 OS25🤙☎️ 13:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Spinoffs

Just to note, I don't think we'd consider Doom's Day, TLV, or The Adventure Games as Spinoffs proper, and I still don't know why OS25 gave them circles. (The first two are multimedia projects that existed largely within the normal domains we're already covering and the other was explicitly billed as part of S5.) I don't think they belong. Fully agree with all the others, given the compromise. Najawin 20:24, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

I really don't understand this line of argument if I'm being honest. They're series that readers may be interested in, no matter whether they're classed as spin-offs or not. I also feel that spin-off is a much looser term than you seem to use it as. These are series, outside of the franchises undebatable main series (the TV show), that are still part of the franchise. This is, in my mind, a spin-off. But, whether they're spin-offs or not, I still feel they warrant inclusion here as they're things that fit in naturally that readers may want to find out about or use as a place to dive a little deeper into Doctor Who, outside of the main show. Bongo50 20:35, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
But this approach means that every separate Big Finish series should get a circle. Or that every different comics run should. Or even more video games. So there's a line somewhere. These specific ones are ones that have reasons not to be there - TLV in particular was not billed as a series, but as a single story. Doom's Day was billed as both, to be fair, but it's so similar to TLV that I'm treating it the same. It's a multimedia event that is part of other things we already list. And TAG was billed as part of S5. Hence why those in particular shouldn't be there. Najawin 20:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

I specifically ended up choosing the term "Expanded media" for that section. Nothing that is listed there is not "expanded media" - and I think Doom's Day justifies being where it is because it is a series of stories and is currently running. When it ends, we'll take it off the main page and replace it with something else. We might swap it with BBC Books or something. OS25🤙☎️ 21:17, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

The idea that every BF series should get a circle, and every comic run should... is, frankly, just silly and taking things to the extremes. I'd say Doom's Day warrants its place, by virtue of being current and ongoing, and a player in the 60th anniversary celebrations. TLV and the Adventure Games are more debatable, I agree, but I'd say the Adventure Games are good because it's nice to have /some/ gaming content on the front page (although maybe a more recent game release would be better suited in this case?)
We can argue what's warranted til the end of the universe, and a line has to be drawn somewhere, but we can't just argue indefinitely or do monthly polls. It's also not easy whatsoever to draw up rules or criteria because Doctor Who is so vast and ever-changing, with hundreds of spin-offs and expanded media content. The whole "step back in time" section is so subjective - what's the alternative other than nuking it from the homepage? Maybe a "Randomiser" whereby we select 20 things and we highlight two or three of those things every couple of months? Even that would have its issues. I'm not sure there is a clean solution to this one. But, equally, I don't see the harm in having TLV and Adventure Games etc. on there too?
BF ranges shouldn't get their own circles because they fall under Big Finish, which has its own circle. However, Reeltime and BBV are seperate entities, as is TLV, as is Virgin Books, etc. So I feel like they all warrant inclusion for that. I think the section is fine as it is - and we can swap things out as time goes on, depending on what gets released and what happens in the future. Noting it as "expanded media" is also a good call, to avoid endless arguments about what defines a 'spin off'. — Fractal Doctor @ 11:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Saturation

Okay, so this is a big thing. I personally have long petitioned for us to abandon the whole "monochrome until you hover over it" thing. I think it's a very bland look, and generally I think the whole "everything has to be blue, yellow, or grey" thing is very 2017. I personally think our landing would look a lot better if the images were naturally in full color and then perhaps there was a white glow when hovering over images. Sort of like w:c:doctorwhofanon. OS25🤙☎️ 16:44, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with having the pictures on colour, the monochrome look is slightly bland. Aquanafrahudy 📢 19:49, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
If it were up to me, I'd change the whole yellow aesthetic on the homepage, but I understand it's in-keeping with the theme/look of the rest of the Wiki, so fair enough. But I'm also in agreement - let's have bright colours please. It looks so washed out and unappealing as it is right now, IMO. — Fractal Doctor @ 20:04, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I'm open to removing it, although I'd like a few more opinions before doing so. Bongo50 20:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Strongly disagree for the reasons discussed before. Too many visual stimuli. Najawin 20:19, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

I understand your perspective here, but I think it's worse to have too little visual stimuli, which is what we currently have. Visual stimuli is good! It's what inspires people to look at things and click on them. If the thumbnails on YouTube were all in black-and-white, the algorithm would collapse and the site would run out of money in a fortnight. There's no point in having a bunch of "please click on this" buttons if they're all drab and indistinguishable at a glance. OS25🤙☎️ 21:15, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
One thing I love about Doctor Who in general is how 'colourful' and vibrant and loud it is. Colour would make the main page so much more visually interesting. You can still retain a simple design, but use colour. Do any other Wikis use the 'washed out' desaturated look we currently have, and do they really look as exciting or as interesting as those which use colours? I'm unconvinced.
Even the official website uses a whole range of colour - https://www.doctorwho.tv/characters - and everything pops. It's just so much more attractive to the eye, IMO. You want your website to be colourful and visually popping, surely. We want people to get lost in links and clicking on stuff, opening the Wiki across multiple tabs, etc. — Fractal Doctor @ 21:50, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
The issue is about how much visual information is present. We've just radically upped it. You want to do so again. The pictures chosen actually have a lot of visual content - it's pretty overwhelming for me when they're all on screen at once. Now, my experience is not universal, and I use a desktop, which isn't standard. But I'm very hesitant to increase it even more. Najawin 22:20, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
I suggested borders around the images, because I think that might be a good way of balancing visual consistency with interest. If those links – I also had the roundels two sections down in mind – were full-colour images with thick gold frames (or whatever accent colour), they would be separated a bit more, so it doesn't look like they're trying to be a contiguous whole, but they'd look harmonious and intentional. Like, if we just made the images in the sidebar boxes full colour (which I definitely think should be done), the buffer of the solid gold box means they wouldn't clash with anything, so I'm proposing a lower-key version of the same principle be applied elsewhere. Starkidsoph 00:45, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
Well, personally I just don't see the landing as it currently is as overwhelming. It's, at worst, just whelming. OS25🤙☎️ 02:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure how to respond to that. It's trivial that everyone will react to different amounts of visual stimuli in different ways. As it stands the images are just scaled down versions of images that were designed for a much larger scale, with additional detail added (the titles). They have a ton of information present for someone who might have a difficult time filtering that info out. Adding color compounds that problem. Najawin 03:39, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I fundamentally disagree. Removing the color makes the issue much, much worse! At a distance and thumbnail level, without color all those circles are just grey lifeless blobs. Adding color gives a sense of contrast which makes them easier to discern - I simply can not comprehend the argument that adding color removes details. OS25🤙☎️ 03:43, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
It's not about distinguishing the different circles, it's that there is strictly less information contained. This is trivially true. Adding more information makes it more likely to overwhelm people who have difficulties filtering out visual noise. See here for more, we want to avoid bright colors in particular. The lack of vibrancy is a selling point! Najawin 05:18, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The lack of vibrancy isn't a selling point. It's dull, it's all just washed out and blends into the background. As I said before - do any other Wikis use the 'washed out' desaturated look we currently have, and do they really look as exciting or as interesting as those which use colours? I'm unconvinced. I mean, contrasty black and white would be one thing (and I'd argue, better) - but the washed out yellow is just horrible to look at, IMO. — Fractal Doctor @ 10:46, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

I also think my issue with the main page more generally is the sheer amount of yellow. The images look so washed out and ugly to my eye because everything's yellow - their filter, the sidebars, the titles, etc. Maybe simply tweaking the opacity of the images would help, so they're not /so/ faded into yellow - and changing titles (eg. Explore the Universe) to blue (eg. #456291) would help define sections of the main page more and therefore look overall easier on the eye? (All subjective ofc.) — Fractal Doctor @ 11:12, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

I like the hover-over effect, and don't mind the desaturated look. However, the desaturation and brightness reduction combined is a bit too much, imo (I'm aware that the brightness reduction is just caused by the reduced opacity, but still). Would be curious what it would look like with just the brightness reduction, or with just the desaturation. TheGreatGabester 12:19, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Anyone want to implement any of these for a trial period, see how it goes? Starkidsoph 01:00, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm open to that. Bongo50 06:20, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
What if, for let's say a week or two, we switch all the images to being full-colored, with a white glow when you hover over them. Then, if people like that, we'll keep it. OS25🤙☎️ 15:41, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
Count me in. Anything has to be better than the current washed out page. — Fractal Doctor @ 17:48, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
I'll trial it for a few days. Any feedback anyone can give on this would be very appreciated. Bongo50 17:24, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

As stated, I think this is actively harmful to those with difficulty processing too much information. (And have cited articles to this effect!) But at this point I think people have decided to disregard this. Najawin 17:32, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

I am in complete agreement with the removal of the filter. I never liked it, and never understood why it was put there. The filter can look good in certain circumstances. On this wiki though, it was just hideous. Danniesen 18:23, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
I think the colours are a huge improvement, although I like OS25's idea of something to highlight when you mouse over a link. I also do still think the top cast-and-crew section could be more "presented" – the images don't really look like they were created or chosen to go together, which in itself is fine, but maybe the effect of just being right up against each other isn't so great. In general I don't find it overwhelming at all, but I'm perfectly willing to accept that some people might – though Najawin, I couldn't see anything in the study you linked discussing the effects of many colours together or other visual busyness? It seemed to just be looking at preferences for particular individual colours, and intensity within those. Do you personally experience these problems with the new homepage design, or were you speaking more generally? Starkidsoph 01:08, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
That study was specifically in reference to people talking about how they thought it was wonderful how bright and vibrant our franchise was and that we should show it. The study actively refutes this idea. Najawin 15:18, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
If anything, doesn't this study suggest that our home page only being yellow/sepia is problematic due to yellow being an issue for children with ASD? OS25🤙☎️ 17:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

If all you read is the headline, sure. Our "yellow" isn't actually that similar to what they used in their experiment. They used #F1D50B. Ours is less bright and less saturated. (It's technically more luminous, which is an interesting nuance, but the weirdness of HSB vs HSL is what it is.) Much of the colors we've now forced people to see are quite bright. See also:

It is well known that our eyes are provided with three different types of cone cells for color perception, L, M, and S, which correspond to the perception of red, green, and blue light, respectively. When yellow is perceived, however, both L and M must be involved. The perception of yellow should thus be the most heavily sensory-loaded of the perception of any type of color. Its perception is bearable for TD children, but could be over-loaded for children with ASD whose sensitivity to sensory stimulation is enhanced.

So rapid shifting between these cones, which, again, we've forced upon them, would be even worse. Would it be better for a different filter to be used other than yellow, such as just grayscale? Perhaps. But in a choice between a single color and a barrage of colors overwhelming someone it's very clear which way the line falls. Najawin 19:58, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Actually having seen the new main page, I will have to say that I agree with Najawin and all the bright colours are a bit overwhelming and in your face and aargh. It's very hard to focus on any one thing or notice what each thing is. I think I preferred the sepia, to be honest. Aquanafrahudy 📢 20:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm so glad the sepia urine-stained yellow is gone from the homepage. I do agree that maybe the photos need tweaking or changing - in response to Aquanafrahudy, a compromise could be made if we found photos that complimented each other more when aligned in the grid we have. The photos for Tennant and Tate work well together, for example, since they have the same plain coloured background. Maybe we could work on finding photos where the characters/crew are generally all looking a particular way, or against similar muted/plainish backgrounds, which would reduse the "busy-ness"?

I refer again to this site/page - https://www.doctorwho.tv/characters - even though there's a mish mash of colours, generally speaking, lots of the backgrounds are blurry/hazy/simple colours, and this makes the overall 'noise' much lesser, IMO.

Also, the "Step Back in Time" feature feels busier to me not because of the colours but because of how small the circles are and their close proximity. If the grid were changed to be 3 rows of 4, and slightly bigger circles, it'd be clearer.

I prefer colours. But, if we really had to go back to a filter, I'd much rather use a good blue than the yellow we used to have. — Fractal Doctor @ 21:35, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure blue is possible on dark mode? Too similar. But Step Back in Time is the main offender. Both because of the high level of details in the small circles and because of the very vibrant colors used. Najawin 21:53, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Hi, just gonna give my two cents - the colourful images work fine, imo. I think a revised colour filter would look better, but it's not a huge issue. However, I take issue with the captions - some of them are now poorly contrasted with the underlying image with the filter being removed, with Murray Gold's icon being the most egregious example:

Murray Gold mismatch.png

A text glow/drop shadow could work; overlaying a black gradient to the bottoms of images, on which the text sits, may also work.

(As a side note, I'm really not a big fan of the real-world half of the 'Partners in Crime' section; inevitably, it'll probably always seem like a somewhat arbtitrary collection of subject matters). TheGreatGabester 20:47, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

I've added a drop shadow. Bongo50 21:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
While we're at it, can we actually shrink the images? Having them overlap like that looks really confusing, and since there's a gap between the two rows, it stands there should be a similar gap between images. OS25🤙☎️ 02:57, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Display design

Maybe we could use another 'section' on this Talk page for 'display' discussion? In any case, I had 10 minutes earlier so I came up with a very basic grid idea that could look less 'busy' for the homepage. Just a proof of concept, rather than a fully thought-out idea tbf, so feel free to criticise and toss aside if you don't like it! I just used the idea from the top of the homepage where we have a cast/crew grid without using the circles, and wondered if it'd look cleaner. I also added 'links'/titles to the top row, again just to see how it could look. I dunno! (I also struggled to find some images but went with as many as I could that felt 'clean' - although I know this is all subjective.)

Outing myself as a "light mode" user once again. — Fractal Doctor @ 12:34, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

I hope no one takes general offense to this, but the top of the home page is the part that needs the most reworking, I insist that we do not redesign the rest of the page to match it.
I know that I designed this part of the landing, but abandoning the circle design for something far more clunky and spacious just weeks after we picked the motif seems irregular. OS25🤙☎️ 13:54, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
No offence taken, OS25. I didn't really think too much about the different shapes. Do you feel that the "Partners in Crime" and "How to Doctor Who" sections need roundels/circles too, to match what's below, and have roundels all the way down? My design of a rectangular grid was just a suggestion to reduce how 'busy' it feels. I love the circles, and I love that they sort of tie into the background/TARDIS aesthetic... but I do think many in a row (and small/squashed together) as with "Step Back in Time" doesn't help matters. Not only do they need representative images but they also have their logos in the designs too, and the tiny circles aren't great. Unless we simply enlarge those circles and have 3 rows of 4? — Fractal Doctor @ 13:58, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
My alternative suggestion would be to simply keep the design we have now, but remove the respective logos from the circle images and have clickable links below each one (sort of how the current "Partners in Crime" grid does now). That could help reduce the overwhelming 'busy' aspect of those particular circles. — Fractal Doctor @ 14:00, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Well, no offense to you, but I think every idea you're suggesting here would make the page more busy less organized and more overwhelming. There is no tenant of graphic design that says you can only use one kind of shape. If anything, in the future we can talk about making the "cast/crew" module less tall to fit the rest, but stretching out the rest of the page isn't going to fix anything. OS25🤙☎️ 14:06, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, forget the proposal I made above with the rectangle design. We agree on this. All I'm getting at is that "Step Back in Time" feels busier than the modules above it because it has 2 rows of 6 roundels - thus they are smaller, more cramped, and is more visually messy (IMO) than the preceeding modules. All I'm suggesting is we simply bump 4 of the roundels on to another row, meaning we can make them all slightly bigger (akin to modules above) and make the images more visible at a glance. Even just comparing the "Rabbit Hole" module to "Step Back in Time" - the former is less overwhelmingly busy because it has larger circles and the detail can be seen more clearly, and that's simply by having 5 roundels per row instead of 6. — Fractal Doctor @ 14:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
If an admin agrees with this, I'm fine to test it out. Step Back in Time was the section I spent the least time perfecting because it was mostly a test before it was suddenly on the landing. OS25🤙☎️ 14:31, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
I'll give it a try. Bongo50 14:55, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
Just seen the "Step Back in Time" circles now spread to 3 rows of 4 and already I think it's a massive improvement. Still quite colourful but more readable at a glance. — Fractal Doctor @ 15:03, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Still has many of the same issues for me. That section is better, but not good. And while Step Back in Time was the worst offender, Further Down the Rabbit Hole, Alice? has similar issues. There's slightly less visual noise, but there's still a lot. And the color issue is still an issue. I think part of the problem is that we've forced everything into this area and so there's just so much visual information that you have to tone it down in some way, either by removing color, or by making it less dense, like with the large rectangle idea.

I would agree with OS25 that there's fundamentally no need to switch to rectangles and that I wouldn't mind, in principle, a change to the top section of the main page. It's the content that's there that I'm concerned about, not the specific aesthetics. I mocked it up super quickly, it's obviously rough. (With that said, I prefer minimalism and don't, personally, like the circle design, but this is my personal preference and I don't really care that much. I don't think the main page aesthetics should be dictated by personal preferences but instead by thinking about how to welcome new users. So it's half a dozen of one, six of the other.) Najawin 19:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC)

Cast/Crew section images

Might I suggest that the brand new promo photos that just got released (Tate, Tennant, etc.) be used for the Cast/Crew section at the top of the homepage? I know we don't typically use promo art but they are, IMO, really beautiful and would really pop! Plus, they have a similar background so they'd all look good in a grid. — Fractal Doctor @ 18:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

My view on this is the same as above, bright colors are not a selling point but instead something that should be seen as disqualifying. The pictures actively hurt my eyes. Najawin 18:23, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
We can always desaturate them if we like the composition and recency but are put out by the vibranc! Scrooge MacDuck 18:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Desaturating them slightly would work. I just think we'd be sort of mad not to use them. They pop, they're as recent as can be, and promote all of this year's specials. Plus, they have a nice style/consistency to the art. (When it comes to Wikis, I often see new official material being used, except on ours. It'd be a shame not to use them in some capacity.) — Fractal Doctor @ 19:05, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Desaturating images can go a long way. Just something I threw together in a few minutes, along with the roundel/circle theme the rest of the homepage has.

Fractal Doctor @ 22:24, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Ooh, I love that. Only thing, I don't think Ruby's meant to be in the specials – any chance they might release an image in this style for Rose, or anyone else who will be? Linking to an article that can't really have any information in it yet might not be the best move. Starkidsoph 22:52, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Sorry, 14 and Donna still fundamentally give me a headache. It's not the saturation so much as the presence of bright pink. I do like the other two for after the 60th! But we probably shouldn't have them up yet, since we can't make pages for them. Najawin 23:46, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
Starkidsoph, I doubt we'll get any more of these - unless they opt to do one for NPH or something. Seems to be limited to the main 4 characters, all of whom are in the specials this year (counting Christmas as a special there). Of course, we could just use the 14/Donna ones for now (and link to real world David Tennant and Tate underneath).
Najawin, fair points. I could make edits of these that removes the vortex background completely, if that'd help. Would make them much more palatable, maybe? I mean, we know Ncuti appears in the 60th in some capacity (thanks to the trailer) but you're right that it probably should just be Tennant and Tate on the homepage (unless we have an extra little "Materialising this Christmas" box with graphics of Ncuti and Millie in just to advertise the rest of 2023 - it's already widely publicised that they're coming soon, so why not have them on the homepage somewhere, if we can do something slightly different? I'm not against leaving them off the homepage completely though, if there's a preference or consensus for that! — Fractal Doctor @ 10:27, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Fractal Doctor @ 10:44, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I really love these mock-ups. I think the white backgrounds might be a good idea just for clarity at a thumbnail level, but I could go either way. OS25🤙☎️ 14:24, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

I've no issue with those. Fundamentally I don't really see how the graphic you're suggesting solves the issue, we can't have pages for the two characters; people might try to click on them and go nowhere. I think it's confusing tbh. Najawin 14:24, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

If we wanted Ncuti and Millie on the homepage, their graphics could temporarily link to the Series 14 page as a sort of compromise til later in the year? Otherwise, we could stick to just Tennant and Tate. I gotta say I prefer the white background mock-ups I made too - easier on the eye, less 'noisy' without the bright pinks, and still clear when scaled down. — Fractal Doctor @ 14:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

A very quick mock-up of how the current "Partners in Crime" module could look if we used white background circles as the design template.

Fractal Doctor @ 15:04, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Those white background images look fine, but I doubt committing to that aesthetic would be practical in the long-term. You’d always need someone with Photoshop experience to do cut-outs, or rely on existing .pngs. Not that that would be prohibitively difficult, it’s doable. But the upkeep of the front page should probably be kept as simple a task as possible, imo. TheGreatGabester 21:01, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
Personally, I'd just use four I showed above, full colour but slightly desaturated, but I made these just as a concept. You're right though, TGG, that it could be a lot of work to manually edit photos every time we decide to change them if we implemented the 'cut out' design. I guess some people just won't ever be happy, and we can't please everyone. Just not sure what the compromise is. (I guess just opting not to use these images, which would be a shame IMO.) I'll dip for a while and wait on other people to chime in with opinions :) — Fractal Doctor @ 21:08, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
I think differentiating between characters and real-world creatives is pretty important and the layout itself doesn't make that clear enough, so I would maybe prefer some sort of background on 14 and Donna still? The white looks really good and clean, I think it's an excellent solution for making the real-people images more harmonious. Starkidsoph 11:50, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Dipping back in a mo - the only idea I have to differentiate them is to keep the vortex background behind 14/Donna, but have the vortex background black and white and then the actual characters in colour? Would require editing though, and would be a nuisance if we needed to keep changing things. (Although once Ncuti and Millie are settled in, I imagine the homepage won't change too much if the casting remains consistent for a while.) — Fractal Doctor @ 13:00, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Again, I have zero issues with the blue used for Gatwa and Gibson. But that pink is exactly the sort of thing we should be avoiding, regardless of people's preferences. Najawin 16:23, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Why is the pink worse than the blue? Is it because blue is a more calming colour? Aquanafrahudy 📢 16:27, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
I like the pink and the blue. Both are fine, no need to overthink it. TheGreatGabester 16:49, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Same, TGG. It feels a bit arbitrary to not use them because one person doesn't like the colour. I think the desaturated versions look great. — Fractal Doctor @ 17:21, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm trying not to be rude here, but it's deeply misleading to suggest that my objection is that I dislike the color. Whereas your reason has always been personal preference. See, again, the study I linked. Brightness is the relevant metric, not saturation. Najawin 17:48, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Aren't the pink and the blue around the same level of brightness? And did the desaturation make much of a difference, in your opinion, or did you think it was just as bad? Aquanafrahudy 📢 17:58, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Quick mock-up of how grey vortex background could work (sorry about the white, I couldn't get it to work otherwise):

Thoughts? Aquanafrahudy 📢 18:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

I do like that totally desaturated grey look, it’s an interesting aesthetic. That or the partly desaturated look would work.
Najawin, there’s nothing wrong with people having preferences. I also don’t think a scientific paper should dictate the limits of an aesthetic choice (this is coming from someone with ASC, by the way). It just seems like you’re trying to form an empirical basis as to why it has to be a certain way. TheGreatGabester 19:07, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
The paper also distinguishes between pink and blue. Desaturation was better, but still bad, imo. But I do want to clarify that that is an opinion. The specific design principles I'm referencing are not. People can have preferences, nobody denies that. But if all you have are preferences, then other metrics trump those. Najawin 21:01, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
Strong disagree. I dislike this dismissive emphasis on the idea of 'preferences', when people have actually articulated their reasons for liking something, they've given their reasons. It's not as arbitrary as you're suggesting. At most, the worst people have done is plainly concur with earlier points, without making any further comment. Which is fine. TheGreatGabester 13:46, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

There's a joke to be made about a study in pink somewhere but it's also the wrong fandom. I guess we just need to hope Doctor Who itself doesn't use too many vibrant pinks in any episodes, otherwise we'll have to rule out potentially lots of images we ever use. Anyway, I guess this could go round in circles.

I guess we could just put a plain colour opacity filter over the top, and go back to a completely washed out look (which I find quite dull and uninteresting personally), but that would then be at odds with the rest of the homepage further down which itself is quite vibrant and colourful.

Starkidsoph mentioned about differentiating between characters and real-world creatives / counterparts, so I've mocked this design up. Admittedly, it's going to be tricky given that the first 2 circles are 14 and Donna, followed by real-world RTD and Bad Wolf (ideally I think we'd have Yasmin Finney and NPH? but we can't make pages for their characters yet so difficult position for now) but I thought maybe the top row could have subtle backgrounds, whilst the bottom row has white backgrounds? (An argument could be made for giving RTD a white background too, so all real-world tabs have the white.) I've also used different promo images for 14/Donna, to deviate away from the discussion regarding harsh colour palettes. Again, just a mock-up I'm throwing out there :)

Fractal Doctor @ 14:06, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

when people have actually articulated their reasons for liking something, they've given their reasons
You mean the fact that it "pops", "is vibrant", and "has bright colors"? These just are preferences - if general ones.
Anyway, I guess this could go round in circles. We must obey the study it seems, so we can't use officially made promotional images, dammit.
Oh dear lord did anyone say this? Did anyone say "we must obey the study"? No. The issue, as it has been in every discussion relating to design choices, is that if there are non preferential reasons to avoid doing something, whereas the reasons to do it are solely preferential, it loses. Period. Give me non preferential reasons! In your hypothetical the accuracy of our coverage of the episode would be so severely impaired by restricting ourselves that we just couldn't make that determination. But no such condition holds here.
but that would then be at odds with the rest of the homepage further down which itself is quite vibrant and colourful.
Yes, as is being discussed above, the rest of the page is a problem too.
(To note, while those images are released promotionally, they also seem to be part of the specials, so I don't think by our standards they're promo images. Not a correction, just making sure everyone is on the same page for this discussion because it actually does matter.) Najawin 14:27, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Given that we're now speeding towards November, is there any movement on this discussion? — Fractal Doctor @ 18:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Top of the page distinct modules concept

I've had a look at various other TV/film/media Wikis and one thing I've noticed is that some of them have small 'introductions' to main characters or elements. At the moment, with our current design, we simply have 2 little roundels for 14/Donna and their captions stating the name of said characters and that's it. No further info/context. What if we had a small overhaul at the top of the homepage which would always feature the incumbent/current Doctor and companion(s), with some behind the scenes faces just below it?

I've mocked up a very basic idea - you have the 2 lead characters, which would always be Doctor and companion, in the current case, Doctor 14 and Donna, along with a very brief sentence which also links to 'the Doctor' generally as well as 14's page and has links to the respective actors. You'd then simply swap this out for Ncuti's Doctor 15 when he arrives, and the same for the Donna 'module' (swap this out for Ruby Sunday when the time comes). If there are ever more companions, just add another 'module' underneath that follows the same design. So when you come to the homepage, you're immediately greeted with the main lead characters of the current show, with a tiny introduction (kept mostly 'in universe' if that's the preference), followed by 4 at most tabs to real-world pages (Bad Wolf could be swapped out if the company ever changes hands - Gold could be swapped out if the composer changes, etc). Then below is when you get to the "How to Doctor Who" history bits and then you start exploring the 'Whoniverse' more generally with the spin-off material etc.

I also incorporated the roundel image design so it would be in-keeping with the remainder of the page as it stands. I just thought having 2 small modular sections to say "hey here's the current Doctor and who they are!" and "hey this is the current companion" would help differentiate the tabs a bit, before you hit other crew/behind the scenes/IRL creatives.

Fractal Doctor @ 14:52, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I like this a lot. Bongo50 17:48, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Thanks, Bongo. Kinda just threw the design together but it could work with them contained within a box, or just a simpler 'list', or even have the two side by side. I just liked the concept of having the "Doctor + Companion introductions" right there, impactful, as you arrive on the Wiki, followed by everything else that spins off from them :) Part of the inspiration came from my own experience of visiting Wikis for shows I was new to - it's nice to see on the homepage, at a glance, who the main characters are with a short biog, before delving deeper. Hopefully others like it too, cos I think it'd be a neat feature to implement (regardless of how it's designed). — Fractal Doctor @ 19:28, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
I still think that if we're going to have a header for the non-cast, it should be "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss" OS25🤙☎️ 20:19, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
I'd be open to debating heading titles. I just randomly came up with a phrase for my mock-up tbf; I didn't think too much about that. (I also like the phrase "Pull to Open" which seems fitting.) — Fractal Doctor @ 20:25, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Not to be a downer, but I'm not sure about that, to be honest. I personally feel it's a little overdesigned, and I don't know if it would translate well to the mobile page, either. Though maybe it just needs to go through a few iterations, I'm not sure. TheGreatGabester 16:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
We should not worry about mobile. They see something different. The focus here is making sure that it works on desktop. Bongo50 17:54, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
I designed it so it has the little connecty line from 14 to Donna, etc. but in reality it could literally just be 2 rectangular boxes with a border, one after another. It can be simplified. — Fractal Doctor @ 18:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Let me note that I prefer everything being one section, which is why I mocked it up that way, but unlike the above, for me this is strictly a preference. Other people can feel free to do whatever if they disagree. I just have a thing for minimalism. Feel free to change. Najawin 19:20, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Given that we're now speeding towards November, is there any movement on this discussion? — Fractal Doctor @ 18:28, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Maybe it's just me, but I actually think the front page looks pretty good at the moment. One minor thing that bugs me though: I would make the "Welcome to the TARDIS" text a bit smaller, so it fits on one line.
I have a bit more time on my hands, so I might be - not 100% promising - able to work on new transmat designs. However, the proposed in-universe transmats, which seemed to have been more or less agreed upon, may require a different approach. I'm unsure if the 'cel-shaded', minimal approach I was exploring would work when applied to character portraits, images of creatures, etc. TheGreatGabester 20:54, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

Update

Although this may be a little premature, given that Doctor Who The Official Annual 2024 is technically the explicit EU debuts of the Fifteenth Doctor and Rose Noble, and the first mention of Ruby Sunday, shouldn't information about them now be added?

Feels counterintuitive to have a page on Fifteen while the Main Page pretends like he doesn't exist...

22:30, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

Tales of the TARDIS

Would anyone object to be replacing {{Mainpage Box Doom}} with {{Mainpage Box TotT}}?

Take a trip in the memory TARDIS!
Tales of the TARDIS logo 2.jpg

Tales of the TARDIS is the first new spin-off to join the Whoniverse on BBC iPlayer. Each episode comprises a classic Doctor Who story edited into one omnibus-style episode, bookended by new scenes featuring members of the original cast in "a remembered TARDIS". It's a great place to start dipping your toes into Doctor Who's older stories, or to revisit old favourites!

Bongo50 18:20, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

Looks fantastic to me! All I'd suggest is moving the link from Whoniverse to Whoniverse (BBC iPlayer). 18:26, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Well, the thingy for the "Remembered TARDIS" probably shouldn't link to just "The Doctor's TARDIS" - the page is currently at The Doctor's TARDIS (Tales of the TARDIS), although that's likely to change. I agree with replacing a series fairly few cared about with a series which just released and people will actually give two sods about, though (i.e. I generally agree with the replacement). Cookieboy 2005 18:30, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I agree with this, for the reasons Cookieboy stated. Aquanafrahudy 📢 🖊️ 19:03, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
Not linking to The Doctor's TARDIS (Tales of the TARDIS) was an error that I have fixed. I'm going to go ahead and make the replacement. Bongo50 19:08, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

This is good for now, but the long term goal for that template should be it either being phased out or simply listing the most recent releases in Whoniverse fiction. Tales of the TARDIS should not be on the home page in, say, 6 months. OS25🤙☎️ 22:37, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Doctors Template Ordering

So I've suggested this in the past, and I guess I'll do it again. I think the "Who is the Doctor?" should be at the top of the right column, not the bottom. It doesn't make sense anywhere else - putting it after "There's more than just TV" doesn't make any sense, and burying it below some of our most obscure pages doesn't really serve any purpose.

The ideal ordering for those templates is: Mainpage Box Doctors, Mainpage Box Random, Mainpage Box Welcome, Mainpage Box TotT, and then the rest. I know it's weird to put the "welcome" template so late, but if you actually look at its contents, it is setting up the EU templates. It should absolutely not go first. OS25🤙☎️ 22:36, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

I agree that Doctors should go first. I think Random should go after Welcome though. I think Random follows perfectly fine from Welcome and more often than not will return an EU page. Najawin 23:44, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Minor updates needed post-Star Beast

"How to Doctor Who" needs to be modified slightly, as "later this year" for the 60th specials is now out of date; "Further down the rabbit hole" needs Doom's Day removed since it's no longer "ongoing", or else to have the description altered to remove that stipulation. Starkidsoph 00:48, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Post 60th Updates

Alright everyone, it's time to talk about updating the page to the next iteration. We have dicta as to what the broad strokes of the next main page will look like - a focus on Gatwa and Gibson. But it's really time to hash out the specifics. Najawin 03:36, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

One option is to just replace Fourteen/Donna/Tennant/Tate with the relevant figures, but I think that's a mistake, personally. The 60th was all about returning faces, the upcoming era is about the new. Najawin 03:38, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps... but I feel there is a bit of an issue: we'll decorate the home page with images of Gatwa and Gibson in-character, link to the new directors, writers, etc etc, and yet as soon as you access the page, the Wiki kinda has to pretend any information pertaining to unreleased media simply doesn't exist. So you'll go to Russell T Davies, hoping for info about Season 1, and there is nothing in sight except for an extremely short Russell T Davies/Spoilers subpage.
Now, I would suggest doing our own "best of" home page, but realistically it'll take more time to even discuss what to include than it will for The Church on Ruby Road to be broadcast.
It's okay for characters like Donna, as her page has substance, yet look at Ruby Sunday; it is barely even able to use an image of the character. We're lucky that Annual short story even mentioned Ruby as otherwise we wouldn't even have a page to link to!
Is this an issue with the spoiler policy? Yes. Is this the place to discuss changing it? No. But love it or hate it, it absolutely affects the way we create the home page. I think, unfortunately, we may be stuck in a state of limbo induced by remaining Super Duper Spoiler Free, despite the official marketing being no remotely as subtle. 03:46, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Or, you know, we can update as soon as the Christmas special is over, fixing that flaw, and just discuss the plans ahead of time. Najawin 04:05, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Perhaps, but will the special give us enough content to use? We can try to plan the home page now, but it is hard to say for certain about details such as cast and crew until the episode is broadcast (apart from the obvious people like Gatwa, Gibson, RTD, etc.)
It'll introduce Fifteen and Ruby fully, her mum Carla and grandmother Cherry, who will likely reappear in the Roger Ap Gwilliam episode, but apart from them, what characters do we know anything about apart from casting?
This isn't even an issue with the spoiler policy here, this is a simple case of "hoe on Earth do we represent, even broadly, a new era we know not so much about?" 04:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Hello, hello. Ooh, this is new. Sort of. Happy bigeneration day. Just wanted to give this a nudge. New fork, new URL, but old Doctor on the homepage. I think it's time we at least switched out the 14th Doctor for the 15th [and DT for NG], and swapped Donna Noble for Ruby Sunday [and CT for MG]. We could also do with adding Ncuti properly into the "Who is the Doctor?" sidebar box. FractalDoctor 21:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll get to porting over my proposal when some of these kinks are straightened out. Najawin 21:28, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Alright, porting over my thoughts.
I think we have, in broad strokes, enough to work with here at a very, very basic level, circling back to this. See User:Najawin/Sandbox 8 (second bit) for the basic idea I'm going for here. Kinda. If you look at the first bit, the Partners in Crime approach that we have currently, you'll notice that using the mainpage-box-characters div we have stops pictures from pushing out of a frame at a certain width, it blends them into the next frame. Which you can see on the main page we have currently - there are no gaps between pictures, everything melds seamlessly. If we toy with the max-width parameter and cut the relevant picture in two, we can just blend it back together, the overlap stitching over the gap. (Indeed, if you do this now in a mainpage-box-characters div you get this effect, but the spacing is too tight to be useful imo.) So we can have a landscape shot of Ruby and 15 from TCoRR (I chose that one because I think it works best, but it's up for debate), then have RtD, Gibson and Gatwa, and one other slot below them. I put Bad Wolf as a broad catch all. But it's up for discussion. This is also kinda hard to work with because the main page is displaying things differently than the templates proper, if you look at Template:Mainpage Box Friends. So it just makes it harder to do all this. Najawin 21:45, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

We now have an airdate, a new trailer on the way, new promo, etc. and our homepage is still showing Tennant and Tate. We're trying to get this Wiki more up to date than the Fandom version, and hopefully get more eyes here, so I think at the very least we need to change the current Tennant/Tate/14/Donna photos. Even if we just swap them out for now, so the homepage at least looks more up to date, and we can figure out actual designs and aesthetics later. × Fractal 11:18, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

My suggestion for updating the text below "Partners in Crime": Following the 60th anniversary specials and The Church on Ruby Road in 2023, the TARDIS is now home to the Fifteenth Doctor and Ruby Sunday, as played by Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson respectively. Behind the scenes, various familiar faces are producing the show and you can find out more about them below. × Fractal 13:21, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Done! --Scrooge MacDuck 15:03, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Thanks Scrooge - looks great. Nice choice to add the "cosmic joyride" tag too :) × Fractal 15:04, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Season 1 episode links / current season styling

With Season 1 about to begin transmitting, would it be worth having a section on the homepage which links directly to Season 1, and maybe even links to episodes as they air? My rationale is that a new season, and this soft relaunch, will potentially bring new traffic to the Wiki - viewers old and new - and it could be convenient if the landing page had direct access to the current season as well as links to individual episodes. I know the sidebar has "next series" and "latest episode" but I just think we could shout about them from the main landing page too. Would help the Wiki feel up to date as the season airs in real-time. — Fractal 22:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I'd like to add to the above, to try and make the homepage more up to date and relevant: with Season 1 about to air, might it be worth updating the 'Topical Pages' section on the sidebar to include current era elements. Suggestions: Carla Sunday, UNIT, Mrs Flood, Melanie Bush.
I also think we could update the "New to Who?" section - specifically the icons so the "TARDIS" one shows the most recent police box prop and the "sonic screwdriver" icon to show Ncuti's version of the prop. — Fractal 10:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Well, we now have a Season 1 link (and even a timer). I imagine we'll update the timer to point to the "next episode" as it progresses. I think Bongolium is still cooking a broader update to the homepage itself. Fair enough on "Topical pages"! --Scrooge MacDuck 13:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Icon suggestion(s)

I was wondering if I could suggest a new icon or two for the "Step back in time" section? WaltK 19:41, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

What did you have in mind? Bongo50 13:27, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
Suggested image.
I think an IDW icon using the first cover from the 2008 series would look really good. As for other possible icons; Doctor Who Adventures? Also the icon for Doom's Day should probably be moved to this section now too. WaltK 22:29, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
We can honestly remove Doom's Day and Time Lord Victorious. OttselSpy25 15:28, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Oh good. I quite agree, I felt at the time they were out of place. Najawin 18:21, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
I will defend their original placement under the logic of "We should be plugging current Whoniverse content" but the intention was always that certain things on the home page would be phased out as new material was released. OttselSpy25 12:36, 11 June 2024 (UTC)